Armed forces of an independent Scotland

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:30:49 +0100, (phil hunt)
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:23:35 -0400, Peter Kemp wrote:

4-6 fisheries protection vessels, alsae guid for keeping the damn
English away fra the wee oil platferms.

Makes sense.

A few MPAs (again 4-6) for long range patrol, plus C2 of any SAR work,
plus a dozen Merlins for both land and naval work (SAR, troop
transposrt, resupply).

What're MPAs?

Maritime Patrol Aircraft (e.g. Nimrods in RAF service)

If Bonnie auld Scotland did ever split, I see them (if you haven't
guessed I'm not a native Scottish speaker) more as an Ireland (minimal
forces except for peacekeping and EEZ patrol), than a Sweden
(extremely large and competant forces for the size of economy and
population).

That's probably what would happen.

Though bear in mind Sweden spends a lower proportion of GDP on
defense than the UK does. The MoD doesn't seem to be into value for
money. Why do they employ more civil servants than soldiers?

Because it's cehaper to have a civvy doing things like procurement and
support than a military bod who is wasted behind a desk (as long as
you have enough military types around making sure we deliver what they
need). Trust me, my equivalent military bod earns a hell of a lot more
than I do.

Peter Kemp

In message , Peter Kemp
writes
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 22:30:49 +0100, (phil hunt)
wrote:
The MoD doesn't seem to be into value for
money. Why do they employ more civil servants than soldiers?

Because it's cehaper to have a civvy doing things like procurement and
support than a military bod who is wasted behind a desk (as long as
you have enough military types around making sure we deliver what they
need). Trust me, my equivalent military bod earns a hell of a lot more
than I do.

Ditto. My "military equivalent" ranks make twice what I do, but I'm
current to searide and tabbed to deploy and most of them aren't. So
they're safe at home while I can be grabbed and dropped into a warzone
to *directly* support operations if needed. Oh, wait one... who's the
better deal?

I could complain, but then if I *do* end up in Basra I get various extra
allowances which my Navy oppos don't. (On the other hand even with the
allowances I'm *still* earning less in Basra than them Navy equivalents
in cushty billets back home...)

But I like the work, which is why I'm there rather than in the private
sector.


Also, at least where I sit, many of those 'civil servants' are
themselves ex-Navy who are contributing irreplaceable expertise for much
lower cost than keeping them in uniform. I'm not familiar with the
hinterlands of UK MoD, which is where I presume the huge 'waste, fraud
and abuse' must be - because the only reason the Forces are doing so
much with so little now is that they've contracted out so many 'non-core
tasks' to civilian staff who cost less and get less leave than Service
folk.

(Not knocking the Forces, either: they're the ones *fighting* when push
becomes shove, while we're just asked to get up with them to help,
advise and guide - and try not to get hurt while they do so.)



--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:07:21 +0100, I read these words from
(phil hunt) :

There's recently been speculation in the media that UK defence cuts
ewill result in some or all of Scotland's infantry regiments being
disbanded[1]. If Scotland became an independent state, what
sort of armed forces should it have -- if you were appointed
Scottish minister of defence, what would you do?

See previous thread re : Ditch full of piranhas !

Scottish Piranha (Queen's Regiment)
abbreviated to "SPQR"
(Senatus Populusque Romanus",
ie "The Senate and People of Rome.")
tenuous link to "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard"
(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Continuity maintained !

-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.ian-stewart.dsl.pipex.com/

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:07:21 +0100, I read these words from
(phil hunt) :

There's recently been speculation in the media that UK defence cuts
ewill result in some or all of Scotland's infantry regiments being
disbanded[1]. If Scotland became an independent state, what
sort of armed forces should it have -- if you were appointed
Scottish minister of defence, what would you do?

See previous thread re : Ditch full of piranhas !

Scottish Piranha (Queen's Regiment)
abbreviated to "SPQR"
(Senatus Populusque Romanus",
ie "The Senate and People of Rome.")
tenuous link to "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard"
(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Continuity maintained !

-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.ian-stewart.dsl.pipex.com/

"josiah-jenkins" wrote in message


Scottish Piranha (Queen's Regiment)
abbreviated to "SPQR"
(Senatus Populusque Romanus",
ie "The Senate and People of Rome.")
tenuous

Extremely tenuous!

link to "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard"
(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Are they not a tank regiment now? An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?"). I'm pretty sure it is the Royal Scots
that he is in.

------
Ian O.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Ian Morrison wrote:
"josiah-jenkins" wrote in message


(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Are they not a tank regiment now?

Still light-role infantry according to the British Army. They have been to
Iraq, but don't seem to have gone in during the invasion, ariving in
December of 2003.

An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?"). I'm pretty sure it is the Royal
Scots that he is in.

Perhaps he is actually in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, who are a tank
unit and were in the actual invasion force.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:15:50 +0000 (UTC), I read these words from "Ian
Morrison" :

"josiah-jenkins" wrote in message


Scottish Piranha (Queen's Regiment)
abbreviated to "SPQR"
(Senatus Populusque Romanus",
ie "The Senate and People of Rome.")
tenuous

Extremely tenuous!

link to "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard"

Not at all !

Old Ponty was a Roman geezer, wasn't he ?

I know he was born in Embra New Town or somewhere like that,
OK it might have been Wester Hailes, but his Old Man was one
of those "fasces" fellows from Rome.

Q. How come the city was never known as Reme ?
Did they toss a denarii to decide whose name went on the maps ?

(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Are they not a tank regiment now? An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?"). I'm pretty sure it is the Royal Scots
that he is in.

How the heck would I know ?

I just went raking on Google to find something to post (FGS) !

A W-S gets away with it all the time !!

Away and re-calculate your impending parachute and geezpeace !

-- The Despicable Stewart
-- Perfidious Alban
-- http://www.ian-stewart.dsl.pipex.com/

"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:34e07cb7f29311f1e07f330690f839b0.3570@mygate. mailgate.org...
"josiah-jenkins" wrote in message


Scottish Piranha (Queen's Regiment)
abbreviated to "SPQR"
(Senatus Populusque Romanus",
ie "The Senate and People of Rome.")
tenuous

Extremely tenuous!

link to "Pontius Pilate's Bodyguard"
(the Royal Scots,
oldest Infantry Regiment of the Line in the British Army)

Are they not a tank regiment now? An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?"). I'm pretty sure it is the Royal Scots
that he is in.

The smell was the clue?

"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:34e07cb7f29311f1e07f330690f839b0.3570@mygate. mailgate.org...


Are they not a tank regiment now? An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?"). I'm pretty sure it is the Royal Scots
that he is in.



probably as mechanised infantry in Warriors APCs - tracked but not a tank.

In message , BUFF
writes
"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:34e07cb7f29311f1e07f330690f839b0.3570@mygate .mailgate.org...
Are they not a tank regiment now? An ex-neighbour of mine was sent to
Ir*q as part of the recent illegal invasion force and he was in a tank
(his mother reportedly said "can you imagine what it smells like in a
tank full of 18 year old boys?").

probably as mechanised infantry in Warriors APCs - tracked but not a tank.

It's tracked, it's got a turret, it's a tank to any roving reporter.
(Just because the Army call it an 'infantry fighting vehicle' - what do
a bunch of illiterate squaddies know that a highly-trained reporter
doesn't?)

Just like any rowboat with a GPMG is a "battleship" and a Piper Cub or
Cessna becomes an "advanced attack aircraft" when the meedja get
frothing.

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk