Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

That's the Republic of Texas Air National Guard to you BOY! :-)

"sanjian" wrote in message
news:cFhIc.1466$sj.854@lakeread02...
George Z. Bush wrote:
"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:10:39 +0100,
wrote:

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

Is that like saying that the SeaBees aren't really part of the navy?

The Texas ANG is a state organization until such time as it's activated, and the
only time its members are in the USAF as such is when they've been activated,
either as a unit or as individuals. In Dubya's case, he was only active during
his flight training.....the rest of his service was in a state organization.
The Seabees were different....they were an integral part of the Navy at the
time, as was the submarine service, etc. If you enlisted in the Seabees, you
were in the Navy from day one.

To the best of my knowledge, the Texas ANG was never federalized as a unit
during the VN War, although individual members who may have volunteered would
have been activated and assigned to active USAF units.

See the difference?

George Z.

In article ,
"George Z. Bush" writes:

"sanjian" wrote in message
news:cFhIc.1466$sj.854@lakeread02...
George Z. Bush wrote:
"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:10:39 +0100,
wrote:

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

Is that like saying that the SeaBees aren't really part of the navy?

The Texas ANG is a state organization until such time as it's activated, and the
only time its members are in the USAF as such is when they've been activated,
either as a unit or as individuals. In Dubya's case, he was only active during
his flight training.....the rest of his service was in a state organization.
The Seabees were different....they were an integral part of the Navy at the
time, as was the submarine service, etc. If you enlisted in the Seabees, you
were in the Navy from day one.

To the best of my knowledge, the Texas ANG was never federalized as a unit
during the VN War, although individual members who may have volunteered would
have been activated and assigned to active USAF units.

See the difference?

G.Z., that just isnt't true. The Militia Act of 1903 specified the
National Guard as the organized militias of the Various States. In
teh 1914 modifications to that act, Guard Officers were appointed by
the President of the States, with teh consent of teh Senate, rather
than by the States themselves. The Army set force distributuions and
training requirements.
The National Defence Act of 1916 established the National Guard as a
Reserve Compnent of the U.S. Army, equal to the Reserve Corps, and the
Volunteer Corps. (Which became the Natioanal Army when conscription
began - the National Army was made up of Draftees.)
In 1918, the distinctions between National Guard, Reserve Corps,
Regular Army, and National Army was abrogated, and all elements were
fused into one organization - the United States Army.

The same relationship has always held for the Air National Guard.

In 1955, Air National Guard Fighter Interceptor Squadrons were
required to maintain at least 2 aircraft on 24 hour alert, 7 days a
week. These aircraft operate under USAF orders, adn NORAD direction.
Certainly no "Activation" is required. ANG Airlifters flew missions
on the MATS/MAC/TAC as appropriate schedule. NH ANG C-97s flying
cargo (Such as ARRS Rescue Helicopters) to Viet Nam weren't doing it
in orders from Concord, for example.

The idea that the National Guard is a State Organization may be
widespread, but it is false. The States supply Armories and training
areas, and can call on the National Guard in times of emergency. The
Guard's force structure, roles and missions are directed by the
relevant parent service.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message ...
"sanjian" wrote in message
news:cFhIc.1466$sj.854@lakeread02...
George Z. Bush wrote:
"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:10:39 +0100,
wrote:

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

Is that like saying that the SeaBees aren't really part of the navy?

The Texas ANG is a state organization until such time as it's activated, and the
only time its members are in the USAF as such is when they've been activated,
either as a unit or as individuals. In Dubya's case, he was only active during
his flight training.....the rest of his service was in a state organization.
The Seabees were different....they were an integral part of the Navy at the
time, as was the submarine service, etc. If you enlisted in the Seabees, you
were in the Navy from day one.

To the best of my knowledge, the Texas ANG was never federalized as a unit
during the VN War, although individual members who may have volunteered would
have been activated and assigned to active USAF units.

See the difference?


You are incorrect. The National Guard (both Air and Army) are
components of the US Air Force and US Army. When not federalized they
are under control of the states. You got your cart before your horse.
The Fed doesn't take them away, the resume control of them.

You are incorrect. The National Guard (both Air and Army) are
components of the US Air Force and US Army. When not federalized they
are under control of the states. You got your cart before your horse.
The Fed doesn't take them away, the resume control of them.

Exactamundo my friend...glad someone got it right. I've been following this
post and was about to say as you did.
I served in the Ky National Guard from 1971 through 1998 and heard this
debate over and over...

The last four words of our National Anthem?.....
"Gentlemen, start your engines"

From: "George Z. Bush" am
Date: 7/11/2004 2:57 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"Ace" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:10:39 +0100,
wrote:

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

It is a COMPONENT of the Air Force just as the Reserves, Retired Reserves etc
are.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

It is a COMPONENT of the Air Force just as the Reserves, Retired Reserves etc
are.


So do flying officers in the US Air Force go through six weeks of training --
as enlisted men -- and then are commissioned as officers?

Do -any- Air Force officers do that?

Bush's military resume clearly states that he was an enlisted man one day and a
commissoned officer the next.

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, but no consensus on through
which means officers are accessed into the ANG vice the Air Force.

I'd really be surprised to find that the Air Force runs potential officers
through a six week program in which they are considered enlisted men. In the
Marine Corps, officer candidates are NOT considered enlisted men. I know
there are some differences between the Guard/Reserve and also between the
Army/Air Force and the Marine Corps/Navy way of doing things.

But going straight from being an enlisted man, as Bush did, to being an officer
the very next day seems pretty strange.

And here's the link to Bush's military resume:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif

I can tell by some subsequent follow on notes, that people are not going to
these links I post, but I can't help that.

If some of ya'll can screw up your courage and actually look at that link,
you'll see that it makes -no- mention of Bush -ever- being in Alabama.

The reason for that is pretty clear. Bush skipped out on the last two years
of his commitment.

Walt

Walt

On 13 Jul 2004 09:24:01 GMT, (WalterM140) wrote:

So do flying officers in the US Air Force go through six weeks of training --
as enlisted men -- and then are commissioned as officers?

Since 1962 all entries to USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training enter as
commissioned officers. Since 1964 all entries to Navigator training
enter as commissioned officers. (Prior to that the Aviation Cadet
program allowed for two years of college to qualify and a dual
training program that resulted in both a commission and an
aeronautical rating, AKA "wings.")

Do -any- Air Force officers do that?

USAF line officers are commissioned through USAFA, AFROTC and OTS.
Officer Training School requires a four-year college degree to enter.
The cadets are subject to the UCMJ and are paid at enlisted rates.
While they do not hold a specific enlisted rank, they are considered
to be enlisted. On completion of the program they are commissioned as
USAF officers.

Bush's military resume clearly states that he was an enlisted man one day and a
commissoned officer the next.

Day before completion of OTS, you're enlisted. Get sworn in and handed
the commission, you're officer.

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, but no consensus on through
which means officers are accessed into the ANG vice the Air Force.

There is no requirement for "consensus." Facts do not require
consensus. Get out your Funk & Wagnall's and look up the word.

I'd really be surprised to find that the Air Force runs potential officers
through a six week program in which they are considered enlisted men. In the
Marine Corps, officer candidates are NOT considered enlisted men. I know
there are some differences between the Guard/Reserve and also between the
Army/Air Force and the Marine Corps/Navy way of doing things.

Great. You've had a breakthrough. There are differences between USMC,
Army, USAF, Guard, Reserve. Good.

But going straight from being an enlisted man, as Bush did, to being an officer
the very next day seems pretty strange.

Virtually everyone who ever went through OTS/OCS did exactly that.

And here's the link to Bush's military resume:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif

I can tell by some subsequent follow on notes, that people are not going to
these links I post, but I can't help that.

I go to some, but quite often the domain indicates that the
information is biased at best and falsified at the worst. A "users"
domain is for individual bloggers. It doesn't connote any great degree
of credibility. Sorry about that.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:24:01 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

[snip]

So do flying officers in the US Air Force go through six weeks of training --
as enlisted men -- and then are commissioned as officers?

What part of Ed Rasimus' explanation did you not understand?
And what was common 30 years ago is probably not so today.

The reason for that is pretty clear. Bush skipped out on the last two years
of his commitment.

No he did not. This too has been explained in detail by those who
have some chance of getting it right.

IBM

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In article ,
"George Z. Bush" writes:

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:10:39 +0100,
wrote:

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

They'd better go repaint those airplanes, then.
And change the uniforms.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster