Terrain Avoidance at Night

From the Lycoming website:
"To reduce spark plug fouling and keep the cylinder cooling within the
recommended 50o per minute limit, the mixture should be left at the
lean setting used for cruise and then richened gradually during descent
from altitude. "

From my experience it's just the first 100 degrees you have to worry
about, so that is the first two minutes. After that you can pretty much
pull the throttle back. But the key is that 50 degrees per minute on
the CHT. Lycoming says not to exceed 50 degrees per minute of cooling.

Planning descents in mountainous terrain is not trivial. You do not
want to shock cool and you do not want to be above Va due to
turbulence. Takes some planning.

As for terrain. If you are navigating VFR and you can't see the
terrain, you shouldn't be flying in the mountains. I have done PLENTY
of mountain flying in Colorado mountains, all VFR, but not at night. Of
course there are exceptions. If you fly above the highest obstacle then
you are ok. And if you are on an IFR flight plan and obeying the
terrain clearance rules you are of course ok. Both of these are hard to
do in the west without oxygen. Some pilots HAVE designed their own
terrain clearance waypoints by flying in the daytime and creating user
waypoints with altitudes along their saved route. I never wanted to
play that game, but in theory it should work if followed carefully.
Familiarity with the route helps a lot. Be careful out there.

One other item. There is a large amount of difference in the darkeness
at night. With a full moon and snow cover, one can see quite well at
night. Over heavily populated areas the ground lights create enough
light to be able to make out most of the terrain. So like in all
things, it all depends.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Mxsmanic wrote:
RST Engineering writes:

Oh, PLEEZE keep doing that. My kids need college money and I want a
Hawaii
vacation next year. I make a lot of money from shock-cooled engine
work.

What is a shock-cooled engine?

Something that doesn't happen in MS flight sim.



PLEASE STOP FEEDING THIS FRIKKIN' TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim

"Rob" wrote:

I fly out of DVT also.

Me too.

snip
The little bumps right off the east end of Deer Valley can be quite
intimidating at night (and take note of this current NOTAM: DVT 08/021
DVT HILL UNKN .5 E LGTS OTS TIL 0609302359). I keep a feel for flying
around them in the dark by regularly practicing touch-and-go's at
sunset. Get a few landings in while they're still clearly visible, and
you'll have a feel for their height and location relative to your
departure profile as it gets dark. On a high DA day the bumps off the
end of 7L (the short north runway) are very much a factor.

Yes, not a good airport for night operations. The PAPI's are your friends on 25L/R. If I'm just doing night
currency stop and go's, I'll use the south runway, (or go over to Glendale!)

Mike

Matt Whiting opined

Dan wrote:

My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?

I tend to fly IFR at night so you can always fly a full approach if you
are really concerned. Often the light is good enough that you can still
see the mountains and other such obstacles. Study the sectional well
and know where the obstacles are located and you should be find.

Or just fly an approach VFR. Get flight folowing if you are worried about IFR
traffic.


-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

Ash Wyllie wrote:
Matt Whiting opined


Dan wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?


I tend to fly IFR at night so you can always fly a full approach if you
are really concerned. Often the light is good enough that you can still
see the mountains and other such obstacles. Study the sectional well
and know where the obstacles are located and you should be find.


Or just fly an approach VFR. Get flight folowing if you are worried about IFR
traffic.

You might want to read the subject before posting. Saves the
embarrassment of making a completely irrelevant post.

Matt

Matt Whiting opined

Ash Wyllie wrote:
Matt Whiting opined


Dan wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?


I tend to fly IFR at night so you can always fly a full approach if you
are really concerned. Often the light is good enough that you can still
see the mountains and other such obstacles. Study the sectional well
and know where the obstacles are located and you should be find.


Or just fly an approach VFR. Get flight following if you are worried about
IFR traffic.

You might want to read the subject before posting. Saves the
embarrassment of making a completely irrelevant post.

Quoting from the original post:

"...However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR..."

I think that I am on topic. Perhaps I shouldn't have attached my suggestion to
the end of your post, but I didn't think that it mattered where I commented.

-ash
Cthulhu in 2005!
Why wait for nature?

Ash Wyllie wrote:
Matt Whiting opined


Ash Wyllie wrote:

Matt Whiting opined



Dan wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?


I tend to fly IFR at night so you can always fly a full approach if you
are really concerned. Often the light is good enough that you can still
see the mountains and other such obstacles. Study the sectional well
and know where the obstacles are located and you should be find.


Or just fly an approach VFR. Get flight following if you are worried about
IFR traffic.


You might want to read the subject before posting. Saves the
embarrassment of making a completely irrelevant post.


Quoting from the original post:

"...However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR..."

I think that I am on topic. Perhaps I shouldn't have attached my suggestion to
the end of your post, but I didn't think that it mattered where I commented.

It is considered good net form to reply to a message that actually has
something in it relevant to your reply. And this is still not the case
as even what you quoted mentions nothing about IFR traffic.

Matt

Dan wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?


Descend over lit checkpoints, whether that be an airport or the
neighboring city. It's that simple. I'll never descend over darkness.

Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Any "systems" or tricks to share?

Descend over lit checkpoints, whether that be an airport or the
neighboring city. It's that simple. I'll never descend over darkness.

That is good advice. However, in the military, a procedure we used,
for example in approaching Albuquerque, was to hold cruise altitude
until ABQ's lights came into view. Then continue for a minute or
two, and then start a gradual let-down keeping ABQ's lights in the
same position (the way we hold the runway end in constant position
when on long final). So long as the lights are in view like that,
there is nothing solid between the airplane and the lights.

vince norris

Shock cooling is probably a myth. I believe both Light Plane
Maintainence and Aviation Consumer have taken that position. It MAY be
true in extreme cases for turbos. According to their research, every
takeoff causes more thermal shock than any descent. As for the
manufacturers, Lycoming recommends running at 50 deg rich of peak,
which G. Braly's research has shown is the absolute worst place to
operate, so they may or may not know what is best about shock cooling.
I certainly wouldn't let a fear of shock cooling my engine cause me to
make an unsafe night(or day) approach, that's for sure. It won't cost
you to use a gentle descent to avoid the possibility of shock cooling,
so that is how I fly, but it probably doesn't matter.

Bud

Timmay wrote:
Dan wrote:


My early years of flying were spent in the Midwest where as long as you
were over 2000 MSL, there were very few obstacles to hit and no
terrain. Now that I have moved out West (Phoenix) I am increasingly
paranoid about hitting terrain at night.

Choosing a cruise altitude is easy (well above anything even close to
your route). However, what I worry about is my letdown to pattern
altitude at the destination airport as well as departure. Short of
filing IFR (which carries with it Oxygen requirements for some local
MEAs) what other strategies do you all use? Any "systems" or
tricks to share, or is it pretty much just look at the sectional and
make a plan?


Descend over lit checkpoints, whether that be an airport or the
neighboring city. It's that simple. I'll never descend over darkness.