FAA to ground 80% of Glider Training Fleet... it's just a question of when

UH Just out of curiosity what is the price of a new PW-6? Or for that matter a new ASK-21? Pete

New K-21 is about $104K at the factory based on $1.30 exchange rate.
Trailer is about 15-16.
Shipping, insurance etc, about 3K
Instruments and stuff , anywhere from 3-15 depending on what you do.
Rough numbers.
No idea what PW-6 costs.
UH

On Friday, April 5, 2013 4:41:12 PM UTC-4, wrote:
UH Just out of curiosity what is the price of a new PW-6? Or for that matter a new ASK-21? Pete



New K-21 is about $104K at the factory based on $1.30 exchange rate.

Trailer is about 15-16.

Shipping, insurance etc, about 3K

Instruments and stuff , anywhere from 3-15 depending on what you do.

Rough numbers.

No idea what PW-6 costs.

UH

PW-6 base price $70K-ish. It doesn't ease the pain as much as one would like. At these numbers, personally, I'd be for digging in the pockets a little harder for the '21.

"Utilization" -- yes, I agree. Our club doesn't have an obvious, dead nuts reliable way to build enough utilization to make the nice new 2 seater work.

....frustrated. Seeking solutions.

T8

On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:16:21 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:
PW-6 base price $70K-ish....
At these numbers, personally, I'd be for digging in the pockets
a little harder for the '21.

Evan, doesn't the PW-6 Wally was flying Saturday belong
to your club ? Is the club unhappy with it ?

See ya, Dave "YO electric"

On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:25:47 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:16:21 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

PW-6 base price $70K-ish....

At these numbers, personally, I'd be for digging in the pockets

a little harder for the '21.



Evan, doesn't the PW-6 Wally was flying Saturday belong

to your club ? Is the club unhappy with it ?



See ya, Dave "YO electric"

Walter's PW-6 belongs to Walter and he seems to like it quite a lot. My club (lately) is Post Mills. We have an L-13 (argh) and a 2-33. For a season we rented a very crappy L-23 from GBSC (I wouldn't fly it, it didn't pass my pre-flight), then it was offered to us for only $35K and we said "No". Our airport is small enough that take off performance is a serious concern.. We've ruled out G-103s, DG-anything on this basis. A K-21 might work, a Puch might work, a PW-6 might work. However our numbers say "used" not new. I don't have enough experience with the PW (one flight) to have much of an opinion.

T8

On Friday, April 5, 2013 6:37:02 PM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Walter's PW-6 belongs to Walter and he seems to like it quite a lot

Walter has a partner on the PW-6 who feels slighted when people overlook him

Here is another trainer option

http://szd.com.pl/files/SZD-50-3%20P...for%20Sale.pdf

New K-21 is about $104K at the factory based on $1.30 exchange rate.
Trailer is about 15-16.
Shipping, insurance etc, about 3K
Instruments and stuff , anywhere from 3-15 depending on what you do.


Those numbers are about right. I imported a new ASK-21 (RORO in a Cobra trailer to Houston) two years ago, fully equipped with good instruments, LX audio vario with repeater, Becker radio, spin kit, poly paint, tip wheels, plus some spare parts. Uses standard size tires, Cleveland wheel/brake, unlike some eastern European ships. Utilization at Marfa, Texas, is high -- a joy to fly and instruct in. The perfect sailplane for fun soaring, tourist rides, glider-rating checkrides and training on all levels. I keep it hangared and tow it with Cessna tri-gear towplanes, which can also be used for airplane training as I am an airplane and glider flight instructor / FAA examiner. Excellent factory support from Schleicher. It will be a bargain if I keep this ASK-21 twenty years. Yes, got to figure in ongoing costs such as insurance and inspections, hangar . . . but I'll probably use up three $30K cars to zero in that time and I bet this sailplane will still be worth alot. So whether a club or commercial operation, build a realistic business plan. Advertise. Be sure to charge what it is worth. I get $60/hour and $135 for a 15 minute tourist ride. Believe me, they will pay to fly in a nice sailplane (reference the movie "Field of Dreams.") Bank happy to finance if you have a viable plan. Check out the financing possibilities from AOPA. Maybe talk to Lea County Bank in Hobbs, NM. Yes, I would prefer to buy American and I'm watching for the Windward two-seater -- that's an exciting prospect. The DG-1000 Club is also a very nice sailplane and available now. You can argue the above details but get this, it's working for me at Marfa.

Maybe an eventual grounding of 2-xx's will be what it takes to create enough demand for two seaters in the us for attractive financing and lower costs and maybe even stateside construction to all come together in a perfect storm of glider building. Then in another 50 years or so we'll have another mass glider extinction.

Time to get back to restoring my old clubs 2-22. Their other glider is a ka7 . Oh, almost forgot about their blanik.

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 11:28:05 -0700, Chris Nicholas wrote:

See here how to have a crash (these pilots were lucky – they survived).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xCct8cDtyk

Chris N
Chris,

Why is this a must-sign-in-to-view item?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I have no idea why, but I just clicked on it – no signing or adding any name or whatever – and it played OK.


Regards – Chris

For anyone who is in the market, there will be a good opportunity to compare the ASK-21, PW-6, Blanik L-23, and SGS 2-33 side by side at the same airfield at Sugarbush Soaring in Vermont this summer. www.sugarbush.org The PW-6 will be new. The other gliders are in good condition.

The conversation comparing the relative merits of the various designs will be continuous throughout the summer. Lots of pilots. Lots of CFI-Gs. Pleasant weather. Bring your glider. Open 7 days a week.