Gasahol Update

wrote:

So what your saying is that if you have ethanol rich gasoline, just add
water and shake and what your left with is gasoline without ethanol.

Sounds like a good way to purify gasoline.

Except that the alcohol is there for a reason.

Stefan

In rec.aviation.owning Morgans wrote:
: Except for the gas that now contains .7% water. I know, burn the gas, and
: it will leave the water!

.... and probably lower octane than it is rated at. One of the benefits of
adding alcohol to gasoline (for the refinery) is that it typically raises the octane
rating a few points. 100% ethanol has an octane rating of 100 or so. They can blend
crappier mixes of gasoline with ethanol to make the 87 A.K.I rating.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

In rec.aviation.owning Skywise wrote:
: This FAQ is geared towards automotive gasoline but it was quite
: an eye opener when I got done reading it.

: http://extract.cr.usgs.gov/Extractor...t/40063288.zip

Broken link. Got another?

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

David Lesher wrote:
"Sport Pilot" writes:

One thing about mogas, it is best to get the mogas that airports have
.They typically get car gas that does not have the car gas additives.

Total BS, most FBO's that sell mo gas are either small mom and pop
operations that do not have a very large tank to ask the local
distributer to eliminate the aditive package, or they only offer it
because they are also using it for their ground equipment. Besides the
additives are only detergents which would only help to get rid of
carbon and lead deposits. The alcohol is added at the refienery not
the distributer.


I wonder about that... I worked in the fuel business eons ago. The
additives WERE injected at the marketing terminal, i.e. when/where
the trucks were loaded. One reason was that same gas was often sold
by another company also on the same pipeline; and the additives were
part of the 'brand differentiation' the marketing driods love...




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A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Yes,
But you won't get a distributor to eliminated the additive for a 6000
gallon truck to fill a one thousand gallon tank. That seems the
typical size for most mogas sold at an airport. But eliminating the
additive package won't eliminate the alcohol.

Thought there was some kind of easy test you could do by adding water
to a sample of your fuel.

Well, Corky, as you can see by the debate raging in this thread, there
really is no "easy" test to check for alcohol.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Read it again, George. Here you go:


a.. If fuel contains up to 5% alcohol, caution must be exercised. Do not
permit it to remain in tanks or fuel system more than 24 hours, then drain
and refill with alcohol-free fuel, ensuring that no alcohol concentration
remains in fuel lines or sump. Vapor lock may be a problem. DO NOT FLY.

a.. If alcohol content is more than 5%, DO NOT FLY. Drain fuel system, flush
all parts, replace with clean alcohol-free fuel and run up engine long
enough to exchange fuel in carburetor bowl.


a.. What you say is true...as far as it goes. What the first paragraph
IMPLIES is that there IS a safe way to fly with alcohol between 1 and 5%.
In fact, they even give guidelines for it (use caution, 24 hours to use it,
drain the system afterwards, etc.). If you don't want to do this, then DO
NOT FLY.

a.. Or am I reading it wrong?

Jim

a..

a.. Which page? The EAA page I read states "DO NOT FLY" (caps in original)
with over
1% alky. In fact, you posted a copy of that page.

RST Engineering wrote:

a.. Or am I reading it wrong?

In my opinion, you are. I read that to mean that you don't fly the plane with
more than 1% alcohol in the gas.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

In rec.aviation.owning Jay Honeck wrote:
: Thought there was some kind of easy test you could do by adding water
: to a sample of your fuel.

: Well, Corky, as you can see by the debate raging in this thread, there
: really is no "easy" test to check for alcohol.

I haven't been following too closely (SNR pretty low, actually), but the
debate isn't about whether it's easy to detect. Rather, it's about detecting
*accurately* the concentration, type, and whether or not there's and easy way to
remove it.

The test-tube check *will* show the presence of alcohol. AIUI, that's enough
to nix using it in certified aircraft under an STC. Removing it could be done, but
then the formulation of the fuel could/will be off. It may not be suitable for the
engine's requirement (e.g. octane) even if it's removed.

Also, some places add it further down the chain than others. Some are done at
the refinerery, some early at the depot, and some splashed in the truck.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Jay Honeck wrote:

Well, Corky, as you can see by the debate raging in this thread, there
really is no "easy" test to check for alcohol.

I don't think anyone's debating that there's an easy way to test for alcohol.
There seems to have been some debate over exactly how the test works, but that's
easily settled.

http://www.eaa.org/education/fuel/knopp_alcohol.html

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

wrote in news:d7mr2u$aq3$2
@solaris.cc.vt.edu:

In rec.aviation.owning Skywise wrote:
: This FAQ is geared towards automotive gasoline but it was quite
: an eye opener when I got done reading it.

: http://extract.cr.usgs.gov/Extractor...t/40063288.zip

Broken link. Got another?


Crap!!! Sometimes Cut & Paste fouls up. That link was for some
USGS photo imagery. It's dead because they do dynamic file
generation for each download.

This is the correct link:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/

Brian
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