Combat Ready Bush?

Oops...mea culpa...lest somebody suggest I've invented another
anti-gwb conspiracy.

And I've heard Roy Barnes say he went to bat for gwb..

Make that Ben Barnes...Roy is from my home.

Robey

From: Robey Price

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police,
(B2431) confessed the following:

If all you want is a job, yes.

OK

Then again who is to say Bush didn't mean what he wrote then changed
his mind 3 years later?

Can I get an amen brothas and sistas? You sir, have just paraphrased
what I have been arguing for so long. gwb lost interest...he changed
his mind...he didn't want to be a fighter pilot anymore. He didn't
come out and say it...but his actions spoke for him.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Robey

You initially said that letter implied a life long commitment, now you are
claiming a win when it turns out to not be the case?

The letter wasn't binding in either case.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:16:59 GMT, Robey Price
wrote:

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Ed Rasimus
confessed the following:

I've provided input first on the state of pilot production in '68
when he entered service and later in '70-'72 when I was OPR
for Air Training Command pilot/nav/helicopter/survival assignments.

Nice background, but not germane to gwb's actions. ANG guys already
had their assignments when they showed up at UPT, I don't see how you
would have had anything to do with ANG follow-on assignments.

The germane aspect is that I was on active duty during the period in
question and directly involved with the issues of pilot training,
requirements, availability and surpluses. Thank God, however, that you
have now provided yet another refutation to Art's contention that Bush
somehow should have requested/demanded assignment to some other weapon
system.

Bottom line is that we had excess pilots everywhere... we had suprlus pilots.

Never claimed there weren't. Conditions change, as do options
available. ANG units have latitude/options in accepting pilots that
active duty units don't. They've always had different options.

Bingo. Breakthrough! Yes, ANG units could release pilots with minimum
experience and accept pilots with much greater operational/combat
experience. It's the crux of the issue.

And, just to be historically accurate, controlled OERs didn't come
about until 1976-77. So, you're about five years off in throwing that
mis-fact into the discussion.

Five years? OK if you say so. In Sep 1974 a 1Lt T-38 IP at Moody was
passed over for Capt, because of his "controlled" 2 OER...his wife was
a senior in my AFROTC Det. On an escorted tour in Oct 1974 at Moody by
another T-38 IP, he explained why he was going into Hospital
Administration...two things...Rated Sup and f*cking controlled OERs
(his words).

Whether I'm off by 5 years as you claim, or if you might be mistaken;
the inclusion of controlled OERs was not to swing the discussion,
merely to indicate my awareness of manning and promotion issues. It
wasn't germane to the issue of gwb's actions or inactions.

Got listed for O-4 BTZ in October of '74. Pinned on nearly two years
later in Aug of '76. First controlled OER came in spring of '76 and
second, kiss-of-death came in early '77. I'm INTIMATELY familiar with
controlled OERs. They made me the senior major in the USAF when I
retired.

But with all your insight into the machinations of AFMPC, you had no
working knowledge of how the state of Texas handled their manpower
issues. Correct?

Other than, as stated above, being directly involved with USAF
personnel policy with regard to aircrew manning and usage.

Or are you suggesting you made phone calls to ANG units to help
friends get a flying slot? Not pointing fingers, just curious .

He gets a free pass from this aviator...

And that is truly distrubing. No ****.

Why should it be disturbing? I can give you several hundred names of
Vietnam combat tactical aviators who are highly ****ed at Kerry's
record of accusations and aid/comfort to the enemy. I can also suggest
that I can evaluate political issues from the involved perspective of
someone teaching the discipline and with one bachelor's and two
master's degrees in the area. Your mileage may vary.

And, as stated above, four years after his acqusition conditions had
changed considerably.

Ture...for active duty slugs...not so true for guys already in place
with an ANG flying slot.

And an end-of-service date plus other commitments.

Further in a Guard slot a requal couldn't be accomplished in
monthly training periods but would require full time activation
for the training...

Not true Ed, gwb had already flown the T-33, he finished a T-33
syllabus in Feb 70. He could have stayed and flown as a target
pilot...or raised and lowered the gear on the squadron/wing C-54.
Guess the TX ANG C-54 or T-33s couldn't find their way to Maxwell or
Dannelly Field...no approach plates.

When "Phantom Flights" comes out in February, you can read about my
experiences sentenced to "fly" the T-29 while assigned at Randolph.
Maybe Bush didn't consider bus-driving and target droning as flying?

Maybe you saw the DCS/Ops ... there was a shortage of QUALIFIED pilot
candidates during the period that Bush was accepted.

And I've heard Roy Barnes say he went to bat for gwb...but you're
right if the minimums weren't good enough, lower them, and use
political connections.

Or this http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLIT...ush.professor/

"Yoshi Tsurumi"? Harvard, that bastion of conservative thought and
faculty? "Environmental Analysis for Management"? And, while he didn't
like Bush, the student was "lazy and unprepared" the student chose to
confide in the hallway to Yoshi that the fix was in?? Does this sound
like a spin job?

Last I saw he finished 24 out of 58 in his class. That's pretty good
(at least in the estimation of this former UPT IP.)

Ed, you trying to use some of that new fangled community college math
I been hearin' 'bout? 41% from the top is pretty good? Fair to say
you're not teaching statisics or probability. 8-)

"If the minimum wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the minimum". Upper
half of UPT is pretty good in my book. Hell, upper 80% was all it took
to be plowed back into a UPT instructor. Upper half was good enough
for back-seat F-4s, FACs, recce, transport and almost every other
command. With 1/3 of the class that I was in from Germany, we had guys
from the bottom of the class go across town to Luke to fly Zippers for
the Luftwaffe.

Yes, being in the upper half of a highly competitive UPT class is
pretty good.


The real issue isn't gwb's ANG history, it's the course our nation is
taking.

Bingo again! Yes, and fighting terrorism on the "other guy's turf"
beats the crap out of fighting a "more sensitive" war. The French and
Germans have already clearly stated that even a Kerry election won't
get them involved.

Taking more of my tax dollars to support welfare queens isn't where I
want to go.



I think you and I have flogged this ad nauseum. With all due respect I
yield the parting shot to you. I've lost my enthusiasm for this
discussion...terminal illness in my immediate family.

Best wishes for you and yours. I hope things work out for you and your
family illnesses are quickly resolved. Most sincere best wishes.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

Ed and Robey discussed:
Last I saw he finished 24 out of 58 in his class. That's pretty good
(at least in the estimation of this former UPT IP.)

Ed, you trying to use some of that new fangled community college math
I been hearin' 'bout? 41% from the top is pretty good? Fair to say
you're not teaching statisics or probability. 8-)

"If the minimum wasn't good enough it wouldn't be the minimum". Upper
half of UPT is pretty good in my book. Hell, upper 80% was all it took
to be plowed back into a UPT instructor. Upper half was good enough
for back-seat F-4s, FACs, recce, transport and almost every other
command. With 1/3 of the class that I was in from Germany, we had guys
from the bottom of the class go across town to Luke to fly Zippers for
the Luftwaffe.

Yes, being in the upper half of a highly competitive UPT class is
pretty good.


'nother thing to remember, the ANG trainees had their assignment locked up
prior to entering UPT or UNT. The object was to learn the skill, especially the
flight portion.
There was not a lot of benefit for an ANG type to be a Distinguished Graduate
compared to the Active Duty types. The ANG types were not there to get a
Regular Commission with the DG laurels (well maybe a few we-o).
Also the primary function of class standing as I saw it was to have the proper
position for the assignment lottery a little over halfway through the course.
The last guy in the class got to stand up a say "Of course I want the AC-47
slot"
If you want to throw politics into the mix then explain how the Academy Grad,
general's son was in the bottom half of his nav school class, picked a C-123
slot and got a C-141 slot on graduation. RHIP

Rick