Fed: Planes flying in "commercial" airspace must get GPS

See

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...rol28_ST_N.htm

I assume by "commercial" airspace they mean areas like Class A-B or A-C.

And by "GPS" they appear to mean not just GPS but ADS-B.

The article doesn't say which private aircraft will be expected to install
this equipment, but the deadline is 2020.

I hope the government will not use this as an excuse to decommission VORs.
VORs are the only back-up for a satellite system that is easily jammed or
spoofed (unless you have an INS, but there aren't too many small single-engine
aircraft so equipped).

If your ‘aviation interest’ is insufficient to inspire you to monitor more
authoritative sources than USA Today, your reporting is condemned to be as
spotty and non precise as theirs.

The mandate just issued is for ADS-B OUT by 2020 in all aircraft operating in
airspace where a transponder is required today. You may not know exactly what
that means (and in fairness, many pilots may be rusty on this as well), but
they will simply look it up, which is what you should do as well if you’re
willing to go beyond USA Today. This requirement, by the way, is the first
implementation mandate for the system you dismissed as fiction only a few days
ago.

As for VOR’s, the FAA NextGen roadmap clearly indicates a decommissioning of
this system. They do not appear to share your concern that the satellite
system is 'easily jammed' and they are unlikely to consult with you before
decommissioning the VOR’s.




In article ,
says...


See

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...rol28_ST_N.htm

I assume by "commercial" airspace they mean areas like Class A-B or A-C.

And by "GPS" they appear to mean not just GPS but ADS-B.

The article doesn't say which private aircraft will be expected to install
this equipment, but the deadline is 2020.

I hope the government will not use this as an excuse to decommission VORs.
VORs are the only back-up for a satellite system that is easily jammed or
spoofed (unless you have an INS, but there aren't too many small
single-engine
aircraft so equipped).

VOR-DME writes:

As for VOR’s, the FAA NextGen roadmap clearly indicates a decommissioning of
this system. They do not appear to share your concern that the satellite
system is 'easily jammed' and they are unlikely to consult with you before
decommissioning the VOR’s.

The FAA may come to regret their unwillingness to consider the security
issues.

It's odd that people are so willing to overlook security in their rush to
adopt new technology, and then they claim that they never knew the risks when
bad things start to happen. It's always Someone Else's fault.

On May 29, 5:17*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
See

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...rol28_ST_N.htm

I assume by "commercial" airspace they mean areas like Class A-B or A-C.

And by "GPS" they appear to mean not just GPS but ADS-B.

The article doesn't say which private aircraft will be expected to install
this equipment, but the deadline is 2020.

I hope the government will not use this as an excuse to decommission VORs..
VORs are the only back-up for a satellite system that is easily jammed or
spoofed (unless you have an INS, but there aren't too many small single-engine
aircraft so equipped).

I carry my waterproof, handheld Lowrance as a
backup. Good for the boat or plane and works
perfectly with independent battery. However, I
haven't taken it underwater and hope not to.

Decommissioning a redundancy system has to
be weighed against the benefit/loss of doing so.

---
Mark

---
Mark

On May 29, 4:17*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

I hope the government will not use this as an excuse to decommission VORs..
VORs are the only back-up for a satellite system that is easily jammed or
spoofed (unless you have an INS, but there aren't too many small single-engine
aircraft so equipped).

Why do you care? It doesn't affect MSFS.

BTW, you really demonstrate how clueless you are for real world
flying.

If the satellite system is jammed it's just not ONLY going to affect
small engine airplanes. I use the very same satellites in my Garmin
430 and 296 as the airliners do.

writes:

If the satellite system is jammed it's just not ONLY going to affect
small engine airplanes. I use the very same satellites in my Garmin
430 and 296 as the airliners do.

It will affect any aircraft dependent upon GPS, and without a VOR back-up,
that will be very dangerous. GPS is trivially easy to jam and almost as easy
to spoof. Airliners might get by en-route with INS, but small aircraft
dependent on GPS will be up the creek, and airliners on approach will be in
danger as well (especially if ILS is decommissioned, too). WAAS does not help.
LAAS is harder to interfere with but interfering with the LAAS transmissions
isn't absolutely necessary to mess up the system. RAIM doesn't help against
spoofing, and although it may detect jamming, that doesn't help much, either,
if you're entirely dependent on GPS and you no longer have it.

And in fact ADS-B is trivially easy to spoof, too. So the airplanes "seen"
via ADS-B may not actually be there, or they may not be where they appear to
be.

In article ,
says...



It will affect any aircraft dependent upon GPS, and without a VOR back-up,
that will be very dangerous. GPS is trivially easy to jam and almost as easy
to spoof. Airliners might get by en-route with INS, but small aircraft
dependent on GPS will be up the creek, and airliners on approach will be in
danger as well (especially if ILS is decommissioned, too). WAAS does not
help.
LAAS is harder to interfere with but interfering with the LAAS transmissions
isn't absolutely necessary to mess up the system. RAIM doesn't help against
spoofing, and although it may detect jamming, that doesn't help much, either,
if you're entirely dependent on GPS and you no longer have it.

And in fact ADS-B is trivially easy to spoof, too. So the airplanes "seen"
via ADS-B may not actually be there, or they may not be where they appear to
be.


Heady stuff! Looks like the FAA and the NextGen developers better start
spending more time with USA Today, so they can be up to speed on all this
stuff they never even tought of!

VOR-DME writes:

Heady stuff! Looks like the FAA and the NextGen developers better start
spending more time with USA Today, so they can be up to speed on all this
stuff they never even tought of!

USA Today is not the source of this information. And the FAA (or at least the
NextGen groupies at the FAA) won't care until someone dies. After all, they
look the other way when airlines violate regulations.

Mxsmanic wrote:
VOR-DME writes:

Heady stuff! Looks like the FAA and the NextGen developers better start
spending more time with USA Today, so they can be up to speed on all this
stuff they never even tought of!

USA Today is not the source of this information. And the FAA (or at least the
NextGen groupies at the FAA) won't care until someone dies. After all, they
look the other way when airlines violate regulations.

Babbling, delusional nonsense.

Airlines are fined for violating requlations quite often and there were
several occurances this month alone.

Of course, what do you expect from a person who gets aviation news from
USA Today and aviation experience from MSFS?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

In fairness to MX I think he meant that in the event of GPS unavailability,
airliners would be able to resort to their INS navigators, which small planes
do not have. I am not sure though that airliners will continue to be equipped
with INS systems after NextGen implementation, and even if they are this is
not good enough, as it cannot reliably provide better than RNP 1.0 and has no
approach capability. Many were hoping that LORAN-C would be retained and even
developed as a backup, but that was dashed recently when the system was
definitively abandoned. VOR’s are costly to maintain, and the FAA wants to
move away from them as quickly as possible (going back to my statement that
Victor airways are obsolescent and pilots so equipped should be filing \G as
much as possible already).

It could be that the best backup for GPS will be other satellite-based
structures, GONASS or soon to be GALILEO.




In article
,
says...


If the satellite system is jammed it's just not ONLY going to affect
small engine airplanes. I use the very same satellites in my Garmin
430 and 296 as the airliners do.