Talk me out of this...

About To Be New Plane Owner:

HEAR THIS. HEAR THIS if I have to repeat it ten thousand times. You can
legally DO ANYTHING yourself. **ANYTHING**. You just can't sign it off. If
you can find a mechanic willing to oversee your work, you can do ANYTHING.

Got it?

Jim


Paul Folbrecht
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-
-$250 for an oil change?! Now, that's something I can legally do myself-
-why on earth would I pay that for it.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

I bet most here were well aware of that, but I think I just learned
something important. Why the hell isn't that pointed out in the PPL
study materials? The implication from what I'd read is definitely that
you can only PERFORM "basic maintenance" as a PP.

Jim Weir wrote:

About To Be New Plane Owner:

HEAR THIS. HEAR THIS if I have to repeat it ten thousand times. You can
legally DO ANYTHING yourself. **ANYTHING**. You just can't sign it off. If
you can find a mechanic willing to oversee your work, you can do ANYTHING.

Got it?

Jim

Paul Folbrecht writes:

I bet most here were well aware of that, but I think I just learned
something important. Why the hell isn't that pointed out in the PPL
study materials? The implication from what I'd read is definitely
that you can only PERFORM "basic maintenance" as a PP.

Probably because most instructors aren't airplane owners.

I know that there are frequent contributors here who are airplane
owners and CFI's, so I'm sure I'll hear about it, but I'm talking
in general, run of the mill FBO's, your average rental outfit, and
so on.

-jav

Paul, buying a run-out, warhorse, 2-seat trainer doesn't sound like
something anyone here can recommend.

I went through a similar experience back in '98, only less so. I bought a
4-seat, 150 hp Warrior which we dearly loved, but my kids rapidly outgrew
its useful load. It was also a high-hour trainer, and we ended up fixing
virtually everything on that plane, from stem to stern, at great expense.

We sold it in early '02, and bought a 235 hp Pathfinder. Useful load
solved, lesson learned. Shoulda bought the Pathfinder (or similar) FIRST,
and I would have saved myself at LEAST $10K in the long run.

A 152 is an even worse prospect in this regard. IF it was IFR certified,
and IF you were only using it to build hours toward your commercial, or
something similar, it MIGHT make sense.

If, however, you are like the majority of us here (flying for personal and
business travel), a 152 is not going to do the job. You will end up trying
to sell it in a couple of years, after putting a new engine in it. You will
NOT get your money back.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article sprVb.252862$na.415521@attbi_s04, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Paul, buying a run-out, warhorse, 2-seat trainer doesn't sound like
something anyone here can recommend.

I went through a similar experience back in '98, only less so. I bought
a
4-seat, 150 hp Warrior which we dearly loved, but my kids rapidly outgrew
its useful load. It was also a high-hour trainer, and we ended up fixing
virtually everything on that plane, from stem to stern, at great expense.

but what a learning experience. You were in a much better position
to buy that 235! you knew what to look for, and you knew you really
wanted to own an airplane.

--
Bob Noel

4-seat, 150 hp Warrior which we dearly loved, but my kids rapidly
outgrew
its useful load. It was also a high-hour trainer, and we ended up
fixing
virtually everything on that plane, from stem to stern, at great
expense.

but what a learning experience. You were in a much better position
to buy that 235! you knew what to look for, and you knew you really
wanted to own an airplane.

True. I suppose, if it had gone the other way, and I had decided that I
HATED owning my own plane (or couldn't afford it), it would have been good
to just quit after the Warrior and move on...

So, there are always two sides to every coin.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article sprVb.252862$na.415521@attbi_s04, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

Paul, buying a run-out, warhorse, 2-seat trainer doesn't sound like
something anyone here can recommend.

I went through a similar experience back in '98, only less so. I bought
a

--
Bob Noel

I, too, was looking at 150/152 planes for quite awhile. I *knew* that my
mission would be limited since at 220 lbs, I knew that if I added *any*one,
I'd have only about an hour's worth of fuel.

Then, it finally hit me... I asked the same question of everyone who was
selling a 150/152: "Why are you selling it?" Every non-FBO replied: "I
should have gotten a 4-seater."

Read the writing on the wall...
Carl

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Me: 7x hour recently licenced PP-SEL.

Plane: '79 C152 being sold by my FBO for $19,200. TT is around 8000 (I
think), SMOH is 2050. Annual just done. This looks like an Ok deal to
me when comparing to like models, but the clincher is that they are
throwing in one year of hangering as well. That makes it look like a
pretty nice deal.

Ideally I'd like to go into this with a partner but I haven't been able
to find one and I do honestly think they'll unload this aircraft before
too long. Not sure if the price or terms are negotiable but I would
like to try to squeeze a second year of hangaring out of them.

Concerns:

- Engine has only a few hundred hours till TBO. I know that means
dropping another $10K or so within a few years.
- Plane has been abused by students (including me) for 25 years now (the
FBO bought it new).
- The only A&Ps I know that I could have take a look at it work for this
FBO.

Pros:

- The plane flies a lot; I know that's good for the engine.
- The FBO is reputable and I know they do their maintenance and take
care of squawks.

I'm torn in general on renting vs. owning right now. I anticipate
flying about 100 hours/year- by my calculations that's right around the
break-even point. However, knowing you're always going to have an
aircraft available to fly, even on short notice, is something you can't
put a direct dollar figure on.

I know this issue in general has been beat to death more than anything
else here, and I've read a lot of the old threads, but any and all
comments welcome. I'm much newer at all this than most of you here.

~Paul

Join a flying club.

Paul,
I don't know where you live but after a quick search on
aerotraderonline.com I found many planes in the price range that you
mentioned.
Here is one example of many:
1980 CESSNA 152 II, 4135 TT, 130 SMOH , Very Clean, Low Time,
$28,000, 1998 Paint, 2001 Int. Inspection Status: March 2003 Annual.

And there's even better deals than that if you look.
Try Trade-A-Plane or ASO.com

David (KORL)

Expect for the TT figure, that aircraft looks very comparable to the one
under discussion. You're at $28K with a new engine- mine would be much
higher than that. But, then again, it would be higher. I guess I was
somewhat mistaken about the cost of overhaul which is obviously a major
miscalulation.

CFLav8r wrote:

Paul,
I don't know where you live but after a quick search on
aerotraderonline.com I found many planes in the price range that you
mentioned.
Here is one example of many:
1980 CESSNA 152 II, 4135 TT, 130 SMOH , Very Clean, Low Time,
$28,000, 1998 Paint, 2001 Int. Inspection Status: March 2003 Annual.

And there's even better deals than that if you look.
Try Trade-A-Plane or ASO.com

David (KORL)