The new Electric Cessna 172

On 03/01/13 11:51, Vaughn wrote:

I could continue, but you get the idea.

The day that electric cars (not Hybrids) take 50% of the western market
you'll be able to justly crow.
Even then electrics are short range, expensive (to buy and to replace
batteries), inconvenient overpriced toys.

On 1/2/2013 6:29 PM, george152 wrote:
On 03/01/13 11:51, Vaughn wrote:

I could continue, but you get the idea.

The day that electric cars (not Hybrids) take 50% of the western market
you'll be able to justly crow.
Even then electrics are short range, expensive (to buy and to replace
batteries), inconvenient overpriced toys.

All beside the point, and not even disputed. I was simply reacting to
jimp's bare assertion that "The bottom line is that electric cars are
NOT selling."

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 3:10 PM, wrote:
Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 12:35 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling

Proof?

Yes, but you seem to have ignored these...

Plug-in electric car sales triple in 2012
http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...2012-1.4318285

Read it closely; most of the sales are hybrids and no numbers are given for
pure electrics.

Electric car sales rising steadily
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business...es-4143761.php

Again, read it closely; the sales of hybrids is increasing rapidly while
the pure electrics are next to nothing and basically flat.

Hybrid, Electric Car Sales Projection May Be To Conservative
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29410

Electric vehicles proving popular
http://www.newsherald.com/news/busin...opular-1.68215

Doesn't say a thing about sales numbers, just that most people who have
bought an electric car of some sort like them and hybrids outsell electrics.

Electric-drive Car Sales Record New High in November
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=29338

Hybrid, EV Sales ‘Up 73%’ in 2012, Mintel Says
http://www.environmentalleader.com/2...2-mintel-says/

Says the sales of ALL types of electric cars are up and does not break it
down by hybrid versus electric. We allready know hybrid sales are up.

It also forcasts the TOTAL sales of all type might reach a whopping 5%
of the US market by 2017.

Sales of Alternative Fuel Vehicles on the Rise.
Will reach record high in 2012, says Mintel
http://www.cspnet.com/news/fuels/art...-vehicles-rise

This is a duplicate of the last link.


Electric Car Sales Hit Another Record. Electric car sales reached a
record in November for the fourth consecutive month
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwood...nother-record/

Again lumps hybrids and electrics together.


Sales of electric cars double as new models come online
http://www.equities.com/news/headlin...cat=industrial

Again lumps hybrids and electrics together, but at least admits "electric
cars still account for a marginal proportion of the UK market" and is
about the UK.


I could continue, but you get the idea.

Yeah, you don't bother to actually read any of the links you post.

You just read the headline and make assumptions.

The bottom line is sales of electric cars are trivial and basically flat
while the sales of hybrids are tiny and climbing and MAY make the 2 digit
percentage market in a decade or so.

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 6:29 PM, george152 wrote:
On 03/01/13 11:51, Vaughn wrote:

I could continue, but you get the idea.

The day that electric cars (not Hybrids) take 50% of the western market
you'll be able to justly crow.
Even then electrics are short range, expensive (to buy and to replace
batteries), inconvenient overpriced toys.

All beside the point, and not even disputed. I was simply reacting to
jimp's bare assertion that "The bottom line is that electric cars are
NOT selling."

Most people would call sales that amount to less than 1% of the market
"not selling".

On 1/2/2013 7:23 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is sales of electric cars are trivial and basically flat
while the sales of hybrids are tiny and climbing and MAY make the 2 digit
percentage market in a decade or so.

Your "BOTTOM LINE" seems to be a moving target. Your original statement
was "The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling." You haven't
proven that, and you can't prove that because it's simply wrong.

On 1/2/2013 7:31 PM, wrote:
Most people would call sales that amount to less than 1% of the market
"not selling".

Wrong again.

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 7:31 PM, wrote:
Most people would call sales that amount to less than 1% of the market
"not selling".

Wrong again.

So what would you call sales that amount to less than 1% of the market;
bad, awful, deadful, rotten, terrible, poor, dire, abysmal, frightful,
sad, gloomy, dismal, depressing, discouraging, bleak, dreary, wretched,
or maybe sorrowful?

Vaughn wrote:
On 1/2/2013 7:23 PM, wrote:
The bottom line is sales of electric cars are trivial and basically flat
while the sales of hybrids are tiny and climbing and MAY make the 2 digit
percentage market in a decade or so.

Your "BOTTOM LINE" seems to be a moving target. Your original statement
was "The bottom line is that electric cars are NOT selling." You haven't
proven that, and you can't prove that because it's simply wrong.

Most people would interperate the phrase "not selling" to mean that there
are very few sales compared to the market, not that sales are nonexistent.

It is well established that there are very few, less than 1% of the market,
sales of electric cars.

On 2013-01-02, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
The 15:1 ratio is working fluid, including oxidizer. With a battery, you
have to carry the whole mass with you.

Comparing what a battery needs to contain with "working fluid" is still
just not valid. To make a comparison between what a battery must store
vs fuel and oxidiser, only the fuel and oxidiser and the number of joules
you get out should be considered. You don't have to carry the "working
fluid" equivalent in a battery, only the equivalent energy, in other
words the equivalent of fuel+oxidiser.

The "active ingredients" that should be compared are just the oxidiser
and the fuel, not the nitrogen. An electric motor doesn't need it,
it only needs joules of electrical energy.

On 2013-01-02, wrote:
A couple of orders of magnitude of improvement are needed to make things
like general purpose, e.g. C-172 equivelant, electric airplanes practical.

Oh, I completely agree with you on that point.

But I think that battery technology will in the not too distant future be
eminently practical for most of the world's use case for a car.