Simulated Engine Outs

In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1 notch of flaps. Not as hard
on the engine

All of our trainers make it WELL past TBO, in spite of being brought
to idle all the time.

I'd be concerned that some of your trainees, when faced with a real
engine out, will throw in a notch of flaps.

News to me. In 30 years of instructing I never failed to simulate engine-out
in a single by any means other than going to idle; the Cherokees at the
school where I taught for 7 years routinely had their engines go to 2500
hours.

Bob Gardner

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

you don't get much of an "engine out" at 1500RPM

sort of builds a false sense of security of the seemingly good glide ratio

BT

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

I'm going with BT on this one.... I know the post is about the potential for
engine damage, and I'm guessing that the people using this technique are
worried about shock cooling caused by the prop driving the engine and
forcing the engine to digest more cool air through it's cylinders than
normal.... just a guess... but I'd be more worried about what it teaches the
student. Think about it. Even at idle the engine is producing "some"
power. However you want to explain it, power either produces lift or
extends glide range. I'm not sure that 1 notch of flaps produces enough
drag to overcome the increased lift created by the 1500 rpms + flaps
configuration.
Just a thought. (But I'm on so much cold medicine I might not be thinking
to clearly)
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:nl_Wb.15852$IF1.7345@fed1read01...
you don't get much of an "engine out" at 1500RPM

sort of builds a false sense of security of the seemingly good glide ratio

BT

You can simulate a engine out approach by adding just enough drag to
offset the engine rpm. In the Canadian PTS, this was specifically
mentioned as an acceptable practice. However, as others have pointed
out there is no clear evidence to support the shock cooling theory in
small aircraft. Some believe it exists, and some don't.

You have to do whatever you feel is necessary to safely simulate an
engine out approach. There is nothing wrong with leaving 1500 RPM and
using flaps. Even if you pull the power back completely, one can argue
that frequently clearing the engine unrealistically increases the
glide range. The effect of power on glide performance is not all that
different than the effects of wind. There are too many variables to
claim that one way is better than another. It all comes down to what
the pilot is comfortable with.





"BTIZ" wrote in message news:nl_Wb.15852$IF1.7345@fed1read01...
you don't get much of an "engine out" at 1500RPM

sort of builds a false sense of security of the seemingly good glide ratio

BT

"BoDEAN" wrote in message
...
In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

doing 60kts at idle isn't extremely hard on engines, either.
Now, if it is some super-duper turbo charged 350hp engine and you are cruising
at 200 IAS and pull the throttle to idle from a high power setting...there
might be some problems. At least that is what I have heard. Not something I
have experimented with.



-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

Crikey, the Cub will pretty much fly at 1500 rpm.

I bring it back to the stop. Then I goose it every couple or three
minutes--I've never noticed how frequently.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

Crikey, the Cub will pretty much fly at 1500 rpm.
I bring it back to the stop. Then I goose it every couple or three
minutes--I've never noticed how frequently.

John, you have to remember that modern instructors do not teach
"clearing the engine" as we were taught with the Champs, Cubs, etc.

recently there was a C-172 that ended up completing the "forced landing"
practice from a simulated engine failure... the "practice approach" was to a
dirt road in the local desert.. how ever.. and attempting the "go around /
aborted approach" at 50ft.. the engine coughed wheezed and died..

subject CFI took control of the aircraft and attempted to complete the
landing on the dirt road, lost control off to the side, (just how wide are
the landing gear in a C-172 and just how wide do you think a seemingly
single lane dirt road is)

any way, he lost it, turned turtle on him out in the desert, totaled,
insurance company attempted to refused payment for landing on a non-improved
landing area.. don't know the final out come.

Part of the accident investigation, the CFI had not been taught about
periodic "clearing" of the engine during a long glide.

BT
"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

In small high wing planes (Ie 172, 152, 150) do you do/teach pulling
throttle all the back to idel? I've been told bring it to 1500 RPM, 1
notch of flaps. Not as hard on the engine

Crikey, the Cub will pretty much fly at 1500 rpm.
I bring it back to the stop. Then I goose it every couple or three
minutes--I've never noticed how frequently.

John, you have to remember that modern instructors do not teach
"clearing the engine" as we were taught with the Champs, Cubs, etc.