Couldn't Get it Down

Corky Scott wrote:

I can see how it
might make for the possibility of retracting the gear instead of the
flaps if you have retractible gear and the levers are both located
near each other, but fixed gear? What could be the harm?

To quote various CFIs I encountered when I flew Cessnas, "because there's too
much risk of hitting the gear up by mistake when you upgrade to higher
performance aircraft". A poster rec.aviation.something last year claimed that
there's even an examiner out there who will fail you if you raise the flaps in
a 172 while still on the runway.

I agree with you, however. I feel you should fly the plane you're in at the
moment; not one that you might be able to buy sometime in future.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

Makes me thankful to be a helicopter pilot. I can shot the approach any way
I like. Although last Thursday the ole Huey demonstrated what it is like to
run out of right pedal at a hover.

Great job Jay. Thanks for sharing


Fred


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions. Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Conditions seemed perfect, but I knew some weather was predicted to move
in
later. Thus, a call to flight service was in order, even though Muscatine
was just 20 minutes away. (It's always a good idea to check on GW's
location during this election season, too...) To my surprise, Ft Dodge
Flight Service was calling the surface winds at 15, gusts to 20, from 180.
We had just walked our daughter to school, and the winds were light -- but
obviously there was a big low pressure center moving in from the north,
causing an increasing southerly flow.

Still, the winds were right down the runway in Iowa City, and 60 degrees
off
of runway 24 in Muscatine. So, I figure it would be a piece of cake...

We departed normally, lightly loaded with just the two of us and climbing
out at better than 1400 feet per minute. Immediately we were buffeted by
moderate turbulence, but nothing we hadn't felt a hundred times before.
In
a few minutes we were enjoying the smooth ride at 3000 feet.

As we proceeded southeasterly, we noticed our flight path across the
ground
was quite different from the direction we were facing. The crab angle was
severe, and incredibly our ground speed during the climb out was just 54
knots! Even after we leveled off we were seeing just 95 knots -- a
quartering headwind at 45+ knots!

Still, the ride above the haze layer was smooth, and we weren't going far.
As we enjoyed the ride I tuned in Muscatine's AWOS.

"...wind 180 at 19, gusts to 27..." Uh-oh. This could be more
interesting than I anticipated.

Coming from the north we'd have to cross over the field to enter the
downwind for 24, and the wind would be pushing us in toward the runway at
a
good clip. Thus, I set up to cross over just southwest of the field, and
entered a much wider than normal downwind.

I started to get an inkling of what was in store when I had to maintain a
45
degree crab angle in order to fly a parallel downwind. After we descended
to pattern altitude the turbulence had returned with a vengeance,
including
some rare "triples" -- the kind of air that bumps you up and down three
times in rapid succession, almost as if you were hitting multiple railroad
tracks in a car at high speed.

Mary had grown strangely quiet, and was rocking from side to side in sync
with the wings rocking, in a vain effort to maintain her upright balance.
I was so busy trying to keep from being blown back over the airport on
downwind that I hadn't noticed the violent rocking until I saw her motions
out of the corner of my eye.

This *was* going to be interesting.

Turning onto base, it seemed like the plane didn't want to turn or
descend.
I'd get Atlas set up for a 90 knot descent, only to be tossed up and see
my
air speed erode to 75. Then, after correcting a moment later we'd be
instantly at 100. A stabilized approach was simply out of the question.

Turning onto final was like turning a boat. With the wind trying to push
me
past the runway, the instinct was to steepen the bank angle -- but a
thousand landings had taught me not to over-do that! Thus, my turn to
final was an exercise in will, banking, over-banking, correcting, banking,
over-banking, correcting. Instead of the usual graceful, sweeping turn
onto
final, it was a series of 20 little banks, all connected together by my
furrowed brow.

I was really working now.

Sliding down on final, keeping my airspeed at 100 knots, sort of, I
realized
that I was having to hold an impossible left crab angle to maintain runway
alignment. Kicking in right rudder, and opposite aileron helped, but soon
the runway was drifting to the left in the windshield again.

More aileron, more right rudder, more crab...

Now I was *really* working. Curtly I commanded Mary to turn the cabin
heat
down. It was already off.

Soon I had full rudder deflection, full opposite aileron, AND a 45 degree
crab. At last the runway was remaining steadfastly in front of me -- but
I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...

Worse, since I was already at full deflection on the rudder AND aileron,
there was nothing left with which to kick out! In a flash a greasy
breakfast served by an ugly waitress didn't seem like a valid reason to
fly
anymore. Applying full power and releasing my aileron and rudder, I was
astounded to see the runway literally *fly* away from us -- sideways!

For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Once safely at altitude and out of the bumps, I realized my hands were
hurting. I slowly pried them off of the yoke, marveling at how different
this trip -- taken so many times before -- could suddenly change for the
worse. I remarked to Mary how much "fun" this was, but she had another
term
for it.

Needless to say, the trip back to Iowa City was quick. And even with the
wind directly on the nose, I had one helluva time making an acceptable
landing. What a day...

Once the plane was in the hangar, we sat and enjoyed the sunny skies. No
one driving by could possibly have a clue how treacherous that pretty blue
sky was today...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:56:30 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Corky Scott wrote:

I can see how it
might make for the possibility of retracting the gear instead of the
flaps if you have retractible gear and the levers are both located
near each other, but fixed gear? What could be the harm?

To quote various CFIs I encountered when I flew Cessnas, "because there's too
much risk of hitting the gear up by mistake when you upgrade to higher
performance aircraft". A poster rec.aviation.something last year claimed that
there's even an examiner out there who will fail you if you raise the flaps in
a 172 while still on the runway.

I agree with you, however. I feel you should fly the plane you're in at the
moment; not one that you might be able to buy sometime in future.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

Well that makes sense, although failing someone for innocently
following the procedures he was taught seems overly harsh.

A friend of mine just acquired a V tailed Bonanza, and while sitting
in the cockpit the other day I noticed that both the flaps and gear
handles are not far from each other, and while the handles are
slightly differently shaped, they are both the same color and are at
the same height. So one is as easy to grab as the other. In
addition, this Bonanza has the dual yokes option, and in this case it
means a cross bar that blocks the lower part of the instrument panel
from sight. So it would pay to be very careful about grabbing the
gear or flap handles in this airplane.

I chose to put the flap handle of my homebuilt on the ceiling, so that
when the flaps are down, so is the handle. The gear is fixed so
raising the flaps upon touchdown will become a normal part of landing.

Corky Scott

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:39:13 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:56:30 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Corky Scott wrote:

I can see how it
might make for the possibility of retracting the gear instead of the
flaps if you have retractible gear and the levers are both located
near each other, but fixed gear? What could be the harm?

To quote various CFIs I encountered when I flew Cessnas, "because there's too
much risk of hitting the gear up by mistake when you upgrade to higher
performance aircraft". A poster rec.aviation.something last year claimed that
there's even an examiner out there who will fail you if you raise the flaps in
a 172 while still on the runway.

I agree with you, however. I feel you should fly the plane you're in at the
moment; not one that you might be able to buy sometime in future.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

Well that makes sense, although failing someone for innocently
following the procedures he was taught seems overly harsh.

A friend of mine just acquired a V tailed Bonanza, and while sitting
in the cockpit the other day I noticed that both the flaps and gear

You missed the important thing though.
On the Bo the flap and gear handles are reversed compared to the rest
of the world. I happen to think they are right and the rest of the
world is wrong, but I learned to fly retracts in a Bo so it's no
biggie. For other pilots however, they run a very strong risk of
retracting the gear when they meant to retract the flaps.

handles are not far from each other, and while the handles are
slightly differently shaped, they are both the same color and are at
the same height. So one is as easy to grab as the other. In
addition, this Bonanza has the dual yokes option, and in this case it
means a cross bar that blocks the lower part of the instrument panel
from sight. So it would pay to be very careful about grabbing the
gear or flap handles in this airplane.

Even with the throw over yoke it will be in the wrong position at the
wrong time and blocks the view of those handles, the vacuum gage, and
fuel gages.


Wait till you reach for the heater and pull the parking brake. (they
are side by side the same shape and the same color) I did that and it
was cold enough that I couldn't get the brake to release so we got to
land with the brakes locked. It was an interesting exercise.

The guy with me wanted to know if I was going to ease it on. I told
him no, this was going to be an arrival. A very firm arrival and with
luck the wheels would turn instead of skid. They did, but it was one
of the shortest roll outs I've ever had. Now that was truely a short
field landing.

As an added note, in the Bo I'd leave the flaps down anyway. I do full
stall landings and those big barn door flaps make for very steep
descents that require substantial power if you are going to fly as
slow as the book tells you. You can normally land over a 50 foot
obstacle and be stopped in 1200 to 1500 feet with little of no use of
the brakes. (except on hot days... or when you are out of practice
G)

I chose to put the flap handle of my homebuilt on the ceiling, so that
when the flaps are down, so is the handle. The gear is fixed so
raising the flaps upon touchdown will become a normal part of landing.

I use the flaps for aerodynamic breaking and they are very effective.
Hence all landings are full flap and I have no inclination to raise
them on roll out. Besides, they are electric and by the time they
could be up I'm making my turn off.

I've only flown one airplane where retracting the flaps on roll out
had any effect and that was a Cherokee 180 with the old Johnson Bar
flap actuator. There was a plane you could land in an area so small
it would leave absolutely no doubt there was no use in even attempting
to fly out.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Corky Scott

Newps wrote
with that much wind.. if you really needed to be there... ask to land on
the cross taxiway..

The answer will be no.

I find that fascinating, considering that I was cleared to land on a
taxiway at Dayton International.

Michael

Teacherjh wrote:

But better to be down
here wishing you were up there....

Wouldn't this be a case of "better to be up here wishing you were down
there?"

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

jeez, at oshkosh I always get stuck with the taxiway landing... guess my
reputation preceeds me... except the one year that I declared an emergency
due to a landing gear problem... Then they had me land on the grass runway
so the wreckage wouldn't block the taxiway...
denny

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Newps wrote
with that much wind.. if you really needed to be there... ask to land
on
the cross taxiway..

The answer will be no.

I find that fascinating, considering that I was cleared to land on a
taxiway at Dayton International.

Michael

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:36:11 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote:

jeez, at oshkosh I always get stuck with the taxiway landing... guess my
reputation preceeds me... except the one year that I declared an emergency
due to a landing gear problem... Then they had me land on the grass runway
so the wreckage wouldn't block the taxiway...


They were actually willing to risk that much good sod?

On concrete it just takes a few guys with brooms and maybe a mop.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

denny

"Michael" wrote in message
. com...
Newps wrote
with that much wind.. if you really needed to be there... ask to land
on
the cross taxiway..

The answer will be no.

I find that fascinating, considering that I was cleared to land on a
taxiway at Dayton International.

Michael