Bank Check Aviation

steve.t wrote:
Mr. Exner:

After a statement I think you made about how backward the USofA
banking is (words to that effect), you have just described one of the
reasons that cash works quite handily. Also, while traveling in
Austria, they didn't like me using my credit cards, they really
wanted Euros. Come to think of it, so did the Swiss (but they wanted
Swiss Franks more than they wanted Euros).

Yep, absolutely right.

One of the problems with a cashless society, if you stop and think
about it, is that should there be some "glitch" in the system, you are
screwed. If, here in the USofA, they were to put a hold on your bank
accounts (don't even start with this isn't possible, just what do you
think happens when you are charged under RICO) and the whole world is
operating cashless, you become an instant pauper.

Ah, wait a second. I think you missunderstood.
I am not advocating a cashless society at all. Cash has worked great for
millenia and is very convenient. Cash is the one payment method that even
the most enthusiastic privacy advocat has no problems with.

I do oppose the excessive use of checks. There are a few niches where checks
may make sense, but for the vast majority of check transaction in the USA
today it would be more convenient for the payer, more convenient for the
payee, cheaper, and safer to use some other means. Among them electronic
transfer, direct withdrawel, direct deposit, and for store purchases direct
debit or even credit cards.

BTW: your experience about Europeans not wanting your credit card: In Europe
you use the EuroCard instead which is pretty much accepted universally as
the successor of the EuroCheck. Depending on the store you use it either as
a debit card, credit card (if linked to a credit card organization) or a
direct withdrawel authorization.
Of course as an American your bank wouldn't issue a EuroCard to you...

jue

EuroCard. Hmmmmm. I should ask our Austrian bank about it. But die
Baekerei und Konditerei vollten euros [neighborhood bakery w/ retail
sales and fancy coffee house type of eatery wanted euros], end of
story. And for those of you who speak German, my appologies with
spelling, I am a bit conversant, but do not read/write German.

I guess I did misunderstand you. I am quite familiar with checks, how
they can be abused, etc. I am somewhat miffed at banks in putting the
costs of debit cards onto the user, as it costs a bank more to process
a check than it does to process a debit transaction. Banks make money
off of fees, and the more "products" they can come up with, the more
money they can make in fees [Products? If we have a checking account
called Master Free, we will send you your checks at no cost as long as
you maintain a $5000 balance in your checking account. Hopefully you
get my drift. If you don't and you bank with Wells Fargo you should be
well aware of the fee schedules].
Enough of my rant.

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

Well for me to get back on topic, I did rent a C182 while in Austria.
Very interesting flying in the Alps. IFR below 14,000 using VORs *NOT*
recommended (assuming you could even get the signal -- we did our
flight entirely VFR so we didn't have to talk to anyone -- which would
have incurred a per contact cost!).

Later,
Steve.T
PP ASEL/Instrument

flight dispatchers updating your weather/route
in flight on company freq.

Where do you get that from? Most of the 135 operators that carry checks have
dispatchers, but we don't get updated weather enroute from them. It's good ol'
flight watch or just talking to the controller.
Also, a majority of the airplanes are singles and light twins. Most do not have
things like radar and de-icing equipment can be marginal at best. Most don't
even have autopilots.

Companies like Ameriflight operate Metroliners single pilot with no autopilot,
radar, etc...talk about a handful at times.

Incidently, Airnet's fleet is mostly piston twins.







-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

"J=FCrgen Exner" wrote:

steve.t wrote:
Mr. Exner:

After a statement I think you made about how backward the USofA
banking is (words to that effect), you have just described one of the=

reasons that cash works quite handily. Also, while traveling in
Austria, they didn't like me using my credit cards, they really
wanted Euros. Come to think of it, so did the Swiss (but they wanted
Swiss Franks more than they wanted Euros).

Yep, absolutely right.

One of the problems with a cashless society, if you stop and think
about it, is that should there be some "glitch" in the system, you ar=
e
screwed. If, here in the USofA, they were to put a hold on your bank
accounts (don't even start with this isn't possible, just what do you=

think happens when you are charged under RICO) and the whole world is=

operating cashless, you become an instant pauper.

Ah, wait a second. I think you missunderstood.
I am not advocating a cashless society at all. Cash has worked great fo=
r
millenia and is very convenient. Cash is the one payment method that ev=
en
the most enthusiastic privacy advocat has no problems with.

I do oppose the excessive use of checks. There are a few niches where c=
hecks
may make sense, but for the vast majority of check transaction in the U=
SA
today it would be more convenient for the payer, more convenient for th=
e
payee, cheaper, and safer to use some other means. Among them electroni=
c
transfer, direct withdrawel, direct deposit, and for store purchases di=
rect
debit or even credit cards.

I believe all of these means are very popular in USA. Of course there is=
also
often a *choice* and people choose to use the available method that suits=
them
best. Of course "check" transactions are becoming more electronic based =
and
less paper based, and Check 21 is just another evolution of that.



BTW: your experience about Europeans not wanting your credit card: In E=
urope
you use the EuroCard instead which is pretty much accepted universally =
as
the successor of the EuroCheck. Depending on the store you use it eithe=
r as
a debit card, credit card (if linked to a credit card organization) or =
a
direct withdrawel authorization.
Of course as an American your bank wouldn't issue a EuroCard to you...

Of course it certainly might. It would just be called a "MasterCard" in =
the
states.

You'd better not run for public office, then. That's tax evasion. :-)

Not on my part. If there ever was an independent contractor, the lawn
guy is it. Brings his own equipment, on the day he picks, and mows how
he wants to. Not even Donna down at the IRS could argue that I tell
him what to do.

(I don't even get to tell him in what specie he gets paid! It's his
way or the highway.)


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

$400 at my bank. That's $2,000 in five days. No thanks!

And of course that limit doesn't apply when you're using it as a POS
debit card.

It applies for my debit card,

You can't buy a $450 TV? Sheez!

No, I think you're mistaken. If you have $50,000 in your account, it
could be rolled for $49,999. It's only cash withdrawals that have a
daily limit. Point-of-sales is another thing entirely. Go look at your
agreement.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 17:05:30 GMT, "Jürgen Exner"
wrote:

even credit cards.

No, not *even* credit cards. Credit cards above all! You don't have to
mess with cash receipts, and you don't have to balance your account.
All you need do at the end of the month is cast your eye down the list
of charges and investigate any that don't look familiar.

I used to have a $15 minimum on credit cards. Then $10. Then $5. Now I
go to the Post Office and roll the card for a $1.42 package. I think
the PO guy prefers it: it's easier to roll the card than to make
change, and there's no separate cash receipt. (And if I lose the
receipt, there's the monthly charge sheet to substitute.)

I find it hard to believe that I once drove across the country and
back with my wife and infant, paying cash and writing checks all the
way. Possibly I had some travelers' as backup; I don't remember.

My first card was American Express, and I paid for the privilege.
That's hard to believe now, also, when cards pay me instead!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

In article ,
Cub Driver wrote:

And of course that limit doesn't apply when you're using it as a POS
debit card.

It applies for my debit card,

You can't buy a $450 TV? Sheez!

I can, because my daily limit is higher than that (not by much). :-)

No, I think you're mistaken. If you have $50,000 in your account, it
could be rolled for $49,999. It's only cash withdrawals that have a
daily limit. Point-of-sales is another thing entirely. Go look at your
agreement.

I have. My debit card is subject to daily limits, even when used
like a visa card or POS.

--
Bob Noel
looking for a sig the lawyers will like

On 14 Jan 2005 07:24:10 -0800, steve.t wrote:


After a statement I think you made about how backward the USofA banking
is (words to that effect), you have just described one of the reasons
that cash works quite handily.

it makes me wonder how business can be effectively done there, yes (I have
an account for myself in the USA, I opened one just to see the differences)

Also, while traveling in Austria, they
didn't like me using my credit cards, they really wanted Euros. Come to
think of it, so did the Swiss (but they wanted Swiss Franks more than
they wanted Euros).

well, this is easy: first you ran into many tourist related businesses
(hotels, restaurants, etc.): they are a completely different species.
second: there is a rather high disagio rate to pay to the cc company (about
6% IIRC)
Switzerland is not part of the european union and they haven't adopted the
Euro, so it is normal that they want to see their legal tender.

#m
--
http://www.terranova.net/content/images/goering.jpg