Flying Slow

"Rob Montgomery" wrote in message
...

If you don't think you could recover from a spin, I would highly recommend
that you get some spin training, and read up on the spin recovery
techniques
for your particular aircraft. A spin can happen any time the airplane gets
away from you (not just doing stalls), and knowing how to react is rather
important. Besides, they're an absoloute blast. :-)

Happy flying.

-Rob

I know, I know. Without going into a lot of detail and lame excuses, I have
had spins demonstrated for me, but have never recovered from them myself.
You're right, they are a blast.

I think the problem so far has been finding instructors who are comfortable
doing spin training.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

Trent
That has been a problem for way too long and one reason I maintain our
modern CFI's are getting shorted on their training.
I hope you have good luck finding one for a decent checkout in both
avoidance, and recovery.
Rocky

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

"Rob Montgomery" wrote in message
...

If you don't think you could recover from a spin, I would highly
recommend
that you get some spin training, and read up on the spin recovery
techniques
for your particular aircraft. A spin can happen any time the airplane
gets
away from you (not just doing stalls), and knowing how to react is rather
important. Besides, they're an absoloute blast. :-)

Happy flying.

-Rob

I know, I know. Without going into a lot of detail and lame excuses, I
have
had spins demonstrated for me, but have never recovered from them myself.
You're right, they are a blast.

I think the problem so far has been finding instructors who are
comfortable
doing spin training.

-Trent
PP-ASEL


Where abouts are you? Someone may know of a good place. If all else fails,
ask a few CFI's where they did their spin training. Unfortunately, a lot of
schools (the one I work at included) have to prohibit spins in their
aircraft due to the price of new gyros. :-( Consequently, CFI spin training
is usually outsourced.

-Rob

Rob Montgomery wrote:

Where abouts are you? Someone may know of a good place. If all else fails,
ask a few CFI's where they did their spin training. Unfortunately, a lot
of schools (the one I work at included) have to prohibit spins in their
aircraft due to the price of new gyros. :-( Consequently, CFI spin
training is usually outsourced.

-Rob

No spin training where I got my PPL, so I visited a friend - exF4, F16 and
CFI - who was happy to train me in spins. I had heard that you can't spin
150's due to the gyros, but that was 25 years prior to my spin training. So
I asked him about it and he said it was not a problem - now give me a 4
turn spin (this in a 152).....

So I must need more info about this gyro limitation to truly understand
it....What conditions/gyro/airplane etc. should one avoid doing spins to
prevent gyro problems?

thanks

--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

If nothing else, learn what a spin is, how it develops, factors that must be
present for a spin to occur, and of course how to recover. One of the best
sources for material on spins is from Rich Stowell. www.richstowell.com I
haven't seen any posts from Rich in awhile, but his videos and books can
help provide you with a thorough understanding of spins before you go up
with an instructor. Remember, CFI's must undergo "spin training" but it is
severely limited. Find an instructor with extensive spin training. I think
I'm only up to about 20 spins so far.

Jim

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Have you ever really taken your aircraft to the bottom edges of its
flight ability and airspeed, and flown it with any degree of precision
and of more than just a few moments/minutes?

I had my CFI run through slow flight with me about 2 weeks ago at night.
Made turns with the rudder only at the slowest point, since the ailerons
were way too mushy. Also worked at lifting falling wings with opposite
rudder at stall break.

I agree with you about this being important and that's why I asked my CFI
to
work with me on slow flight and stalls.

One thing though, it has been my personal rule to only practice stalls
with
an instructor on board. I feel that is reasonable since I am not trained
in
spin recovery. I'd be interested in other's opinions on this.

On the subject of "seat of the pants", the first time I flew with my
present
instructor, he had me fly patterns without an airspeed indicator. I was
extremely nervous because my primary instructors never did this while I
trained for my private ticket. I found that it was a truly liberating
experience and as a result, I generally fly patterns by feel now.

-Trent
PP-ASEL


What is being talked about here is much slower that what is currently being
taught as slow flight.

Trent
You'd be surprised how many pilots have never tried flying without the
ASI. I often cover it up and assign a speed to show them they can get
pretty close (within 5) just by sound. I learned that from my primary
instructor in the 50's. Later I tried the same thing with the altimeter
in the pattern and was quite surprised at how close you can get there
too.
No reason not to learn something new all the time and add it to your
bag of tricks and skills. Never know when it might save your life?!
Enjoy your flying time. Nothing else like it and you are part of a very
special group of people.
Cheers
Ol S&B

Ol,
I agree completely with what you're saying and it's a lesson I accidentally
learned way back in my basic training in C150s. While doing touch and goes
one day, the flap indicator decided to go on vacation and, if you remember,
the 150s didn't have a stepped switch so you held the toggle in "down" until
the flaps were where you wanted them then released the switch. I started to
drop the flaps and I knew that at 20 degrees the airplane gave a certain
creak and the attitude changed just so. When the airplane did these things,
I released the switch. Unbeknownst to me, the indicator had come back to
life and, flying it only by feel, I'd nailed 20 degrees smack on! That's
when I learned that you can actually fly airplanes by feel and get it pretty
darn close.

Flying a Supercub pretty regularly, I then learned how to fly it without
needing to refer to the tacho or airspeed indicator. I always did as a
double check, but I'd make the adjustment by ear while looking outside at
what I was doing, then just dip my eyes to the instrument to double check.
Nine times out of ten, you're going to get it close enough when you know the
airplane. It's a fun and rewarding way to fly when you suddenly realize
you're almost breathing with the machine!

Shawn





wrote in message
oups.com...
Trent
You'd be surprised how many pilots have never tried flying without the
ASI. I often cover it up and assign a speed to show them they can get
pretty close (within 5) just by sound. I learned that from my primary
instructor in the 50's. Later I tried the same thing with the altimeter
in the pattern and was quite surprised at how close you can get there
too.
No reason not to learn something new all the time and add it to your
bag of tricks and skills. Never know when it might save your life?!
Enjoy your flying time. Nothing else like it and you are part of a very
special group of people.
Cheers
Ol S&B

wrote:
Have you ever really taken your aircraft to the bottom edges of its
flight ability and airspeed, and flown it with any degree of precision
and of more than just a few moments/minutes? Are you comfortable doing
it on the edge or nibble of a stall? Can you do it while holding
altitude and desired headings within reasonable limits - depending on
your experience?
When is the last time you did it just to sharpen your skills without
prompting by a CFI in the next seat? When is the last time you spent
some diligent time doing stalls and the full range of them with your
aircraft? Are you honestly comfortable with your abilities? I know I
have to think about it every time I go fly and always find some fault
with my performance.
In a previous post it appeared I aggravated some pilots or CFI's with
saying I felt many pilots didn't know how to fly slowly these days. I
have seen a slow errosion of what used to be basic pilot skills and
level of performance with too many pilots compared with acceptable
standards not that many years ago. Now if that won't open a bucket of
worms I'll be surprised.
Fact is, just making the FAA minimums doesn't necessarily make you safe
or even a good pilot.
Care to weigh in on the issues?
I'll be polite in my responses in accordance to the way they are
presented to me. No axe to grind, no ego to inflate (its big enough
already thank you) just a sincere desire to make pilots think a little
more about what they are doing when they go flying. You need to make
your own mistakes to hopefully learn from them and avoid repetition.
Ol Shy & Bashful

I got my private ticket in 1973. Used to fly an old 150 straight tail
with the drooped tips. I did practice alot on slow flight. With full
flaps (40' in them days) and about 1/2 throttle it would climb at 100FPM
and ZERO indicated airspeed. Makes a great platform for sightseeing!
I think the airspeed was around 50 MPH but never really calculated it.
Rocky

Hey Rocky!!!
Now there are two of us here so I guess I'd better stick with either
SelwayKid, or Ol Shy & Bashful just to avoid confusion.
Rocky Kemp