Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:37:25 -0800, andy wrote:

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 7:23:48 AM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:58:17 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud
wrote:
Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12
contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was
looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off
from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well
attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region
12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in
AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must
have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests
available.

And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a
year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also
have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister
just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job
has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to
workers between America and other 1st world nations.

Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the
office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional
three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change jobs or
emigrate.
Is this normal for America?
Dave Walsh

Split contests over 2 weekends have some real benefits, and some trade
offs.
Benefits Pilots can participate using little vacation time.
Can encourage the local population to give it a try.
Possibly incrased activity for local operation.
Trade offs Hurts participation of pilots further away due to affect of
double travel.
Ties up 2 weekends of supporting operation.
Getting enough days means some vacation use and \may limit local
practice time for some pilots. We have done it both in R2N at
Wurtsboro. I expect we will go the split weekend route next time.
FWIW UH

Agree with Hank on this issue. You really need an active racing
community within a few hours drive to support split weekend contests.
For instance, it makes no sense to have sites like Nephi or Uvalde
running a weekend format. Also, if you have local critical mass you may
be able to support a summer racing series. These tend to be lower key
events with less infrastructure and support needed. I've most often seen
them run by commercial operations, but probably not impossible for clubs
to do.

One attractive feature is these contests tend to be scored on a best N/2
basis for each pilot (where N is the total number of days flown). This
means individual pilots have considerable flexibility on schedule.
Thinking out loud, I wonder whether we should give more recognition and
support to these types of events.

On spectators. It would be nice if we could all bask in the glory of
having a dozen or two spectators watching us race in real time online
(IIRC the last US GP contest had live streaming of the event - how many
real-time spectators were there? I heard a number, but it was
second-hand info).

I do wonder if the biggest challenge is making glider racing more
logistically and financially accessible to pilots rather than attracting
spectators. I'm also in favor of the simplest rules possible, but here
too, most of the complaints you hear are about fairness and ability to
compete on a level playing field. The fairness comments fade a lot every
time you get specific.

Nevertheless, we keep soliciting feedback from pilots on simplification
of rules - some of it pretty radical. For example, no devaluation, which
is the biggest source of complexity and confusion in rules and scoring.
I personally proposed this at the rules meeting at last year's
Std/15M/Open Nationals. The feedback was significant opposition, so it's
an uphill journey - even with top-ranked pilots. I proposed elimination
MAT tasks. Also strong negative feedback. I don't mind an uphill battle,
but success isn't walking over the opposition, you need to bring people
with you. In a sport where you struggle for participation, authoritarian
approaches based on minority viewpoints probably won't have the desired
outcome - assuming the desired outcome is building participation.

Despite all that, there is a proposal on the table right now to get rid
of pretty much all of devaluation formulas in the rules at the WGC
level. It would have helped out at least one of the US pilots at the WGC
in Benalla quite a bit - also the Jonkers brothers who had one terrible
day in an otherwise impressive contest performance. I'd personally favor
this change, but to be clear, doing that will make at best a tiny
difference in terms of overall racing participation. Rules complexity is
way down the list in terms of what any thoughtful, fact-based assessment
reveals about why there are fewer glider pilots and fewer glider racers
(many of those reasons have been well-described here). Task format is
also relatively low among all the features that pilots point to in terms
of what makes the rules hard to understand. In fact there is generally
broad support for formats that increase flexibility in tasking rather
than restrict it, particularly at the Regional level but at the National
level too. Of course there are one or two (depending on how you count
screen names) notable exceptions to that support.

If we are talking about taking action to improve participation and
enjoyment of glider racing, the most important consideration is the
Pareto principle. Without that we will spin our wheels on hobby horse
theories and personal assertions that will consume energy and have
little - or even negative - impact. This is a hard enough problem to
address as it is, focusing on the important things is important.

I'm a little surprised that, apart from the single long-standing inter-
club contest on the East Coast (President's Cup? NY/New England area?)
nobody seems to have tried a similar format to the Inter Club League we
run in the UK:

- single weekend comps, two entries per club in three experience levels
- about six clubs in each local group
- typically three weekend comps run during the soaring season,
each on a different club's field
- winning club from each local group goes forward to a national comp
which is run to the same format.

This would seem to hit most of your buttons - minimal time/travel/cost
(you can usually drive home between days or camp on the field) and
minimal organisation beyond typical club flying apart from task setting
and scoring because no start/finish gates are used.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I got this information from personal experience in the fields of Engineering and Law. When I start in both of those fields I received 5 days of paid vacation. Worked my way up to ten days of paid vacation. Below is a link to bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 5:58:17 PM UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.

This is one of the biggest reasons I hesitate to work in the USA. When I did a stint with Mozilla I made sure I was officially employed by the NZ office, not the Mountain View one, for this and other reasons.

Here in Moscow the law says you get 28 days a year. That's a little bit of a lie because the law also says your approved vacation plan submitted (to the appropriate government department) in December each year should have a vacation of at least 14 consecutive calendar days, which uses 4 of your "vacation" days in weekends. So it's really more like 24 days. Fitting those around the usual 10 or so public holidays every country has lets you stretch it to six weeks -- this year I have planned one two week (three weekends) vacation, plus four one week (two weekends) vacations.

Plus you get the whole week after New Year off, for free (not using vacation days), so work this year started on Jan 9th and last year on Jan 11.

Big bucket of truth right there
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:22:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:22:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

You (that's any of you... specifically some of you at the seniors) fund it, I'll do it.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 8:22:20 AM UTC+3, wrote:
Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33.

What a choice!

When I agreed to become an instructor it meant that I got to sit in the back of a DG1000 all day and do four or five or eight flights (and tows!) with freedom to experiment to see which parts of the sky were working that day. The "delux" trial lessons, especially, with 4000 ft tows leaving you about 15 km from the field, meant that you could safely venture another 10 km away and still get back, no problem, even if you didn't find lift and even with the novice doing most of the flying. They got a good sight-seeing flight, plenty of stick time to experiment, an appreciation for how far a glider can go, and I got to explore and hone my skills (planning more than stick admittedly). Win, win, win.

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?
Herb

How much basic instruction do you do down there Herbert? How many days a week do you fly? From what I see you guys only do add on comercial, add on private students and only fly a hand full of days per month. I would argue that CGC is indeed a good example in many metrics, but it is an outlier and far from perfect. I don't bash US clubs because it is "en vouge", Sean, I mean Wilber asked why sailplane racing is in decline. From my point of view the decline is largely due to a lack of viable path ways for the 0 time pilot. X/C is still seen as exotic by the wind sock warriors because they are led by the blind and forced to ride a lame horse.

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 6:02:54 PM UTC+3, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?

I had the pleasure of taking a flight in a Duo at CGC in 2001 when I was thinking of taking a job in Chicago. It certainly looked like a fine setup.

However it didn't strike me as typical of US clubs, on my journeys around....