Any plans-built "RV equivalents" out there?

I forgot to post the link for the Zenith:
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/index.html

Also, there is a historical link between the Zenith series and the Jodels.
Designer Chris Heintz was a designer for Avions Robin, which itself is an
offshoot of Jodel (Pierre Robin was a protege of Jodel designer Jean
Delemontez).

Robins are still being built in France as certified airplanes and still use
the unique Jodel bent wing. http://www.apex-aircraft.com/

Regards,

Gordon.

Gordon Arnaut wrote:
Hey Guys,

I'm not trying to promote Jime Bede. I've never even owned a Yankee or any
of Jim's other designs -- alhtough I know several Grumanns owners and they
are excellent flying airplanes.

The BD-18 does seem like "vaporware" right now, but the smaller single-seat
BD-17 has flown and I don't see why the BD-18 shouldn't fly just fine.

Another possibility for building an aluminum two-seater from plans is Chris
Heintz's Zenith 601 series. With a Lyc 235 max cruise is "only" 138mph, but
stall would be lower than on an RV-9. The Zenith actually has a little more
wing area than the RV with a max weight that is conisederably lower.


What does a Zenith stall at?


You can use a Rotax 912, Jabiru, Continental O-200, or Lycoming on this
plane, or even a Corvair. Lots of people build these from scratch and they
use pulled "Avex" rivets, so no bucking -- which means they go together a
lot quicker.

Personally, I understand Netgeek's point about wanting to build from
scratch. While Van's prices are very attractive compared to what's out
there, I think the actual material costs are probably only a fraction of
that.

Don't count on the material being cheap if you if you only buy enough
for one airplane, Van buys in large volumes.


There are lots of people who build metal planes from scratch. I know a
couple of guys who are building all-metal Polliwagons.

I know of one beautiful RV-6 built from scratch right here practically
in VAN's back
yard. :-)

Jerry

Never mind I found the 601 stall speeds and as I figured the RV-9/9A is
still equivalent or slower, even with a 160hp Lyc (44 solo and 50 gross)
Jerry

Gordon Arnaut wrote:

Hey Guys,

I'm not trying to promote Jime Bede. I've never even owned a Yankee or any
of Jim's other designs -- alhtough I know several Grumanns owners and they
are excellent flying airplanes.

The BD-18 does seem like "vaporware" right now, but the smaller single-seat
BD-17 has flown and I don't see why the BD-18 shouldn't fly just fine.

Another possibility for building an aluminum two-seater from plans is Chris
Heintz's Zenith 601 series. With a Lyc 235 max cruise is "only" 138mph, but
stall would be lower than on an RV-9. The Zenith actually has a little more
wing area than the RV with a max weight that is conisederably lower.

You can use a Rotax 912, Jabiru, Continental O-200, or Lycoming on this
plane, or even a Corvair. Lots of people build these from scratch and they
use pulled "Avex" rivets, so no bucking -- which means they go together a
lot quicker.

Personally, I understand Netgeek's point about wanting to build from
scratch. While Van's prices are very attractive compared to what's out
there, I think the actual material costs are probably only a fraction of
that. There are lots of people who build metal planes from scratch. I know a
couple of guys who are building all-metal Polliwagons.

Regards,

Gordon.

PS: I would still rather build a wood plane.


"C.D.Damron" wrote in message
news:Ibu5e.2589$8Z6.1278@attbi_s21...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

Has it flown yet? How many are flying, and how many hours?


How dare you ask the obvious.

Jerry,

From what I can see on the respective websites, the RV-9A stalls at 50mph at
its gross weight of 1750 pounds with the O-320 engine. (Presumably with full
flaps, since Van's does not specify).

The 601XL stalls at 44mph with full flaps at its gross weight of 1300 pounds
with the O-235. So the 601 stall speed is lower by 6mph at gross.

This sounds about right since the RV-9A has a wing area of 124sq.ft. versus
132 sq.ft. for the 601XL.

Regards,


Gordon.
"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
...

Never mind I found the 601 stall speeds and as I figured the RV-9/9A is
still equivalent or slower, even with a 160hp Lyc (44 solo and 50 gross)
Jerry

Gordon Arnaut wrote:

Hey Guys,

I'm not trying to promote Jime Bede. I've never even owned a Yankee or
any of Jim's other designs -- alhtough I know several Grumanns owners and
they are excellent flying airplanes.

The BD-18 does seem like "vaporware" right now, but the smaller
single-seat BD-17 has flown and I don't see why the BD-18 shouldn't fly
just fine.

Another possibility for building an aluminum two-seater from plans is
Chris Heintz's Zenith 601 series. With a Lyc 235 max cruise is "only"
138mph, but stall would be lower than on an RV-9. The Zenith actually has
a little more wing area than the RV with a max weight that is
conisederably lower.

You can use a Rotax 912, Jabiru, Continental O-200, or Lycoming on this
plane, or even a Corvair. Lots of people build these from scratch and
they use pulled "Avex" rivets, so no bucking -- which means they go
together a lot quicker.

Personally, I understand Netgeek's point about wanting to build from
scratch. While Van's prices are very attractive compared to what's out
there, I think the actual material costs are probably only a fraction of
that. There are lots of people who build metal planes from scratch. I
know a couple of guys who are building all-metal Polliwagons.

Regards,

Gordon.

PS: I would still rather build a wood plane.


"C.D.Damron" wrote in message
news:Ibu5e.2589$8Z6.1278@attbi_s21...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

Has it flown yet? How many are flying, and how many hours?


How dare you ask the obvious.

"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
If you must have an aluminum plane, check out Jim Bede's new design, the
BD-18. This is an update of Bede's BD-1, which became the Grumman Yankee.
It's lighter than the Yankee with a smaller wing and can be powered by a
Jabiru orr Lycoming. The plans are $500, but I understand Bede's plans are
among the best in the business.
http://www.bedecorp.com/designs/bd18/intro.htm


I would be extremely reluctant to build ANYTHING from Jim Bede until there
were at least 500 or so completed and flying without problems. Aircraft
designed by Bede have been known to have serious and deadly flaws in many
cases that were directly attributable to errors in the design. Three of the
eighteen Bede designs have been reworked by others until they became more or
less acceptable. Some are still dangerous. Avoid these offerings. One
example of a Bede design that was significantly reworked until it became
flyable is the Grumman Yankee. Several million dollars were spent by many
people to make that airplane reasonably safe to fly and get it certified.


I'm glad someone mentioned the Emeraude. Another venerable wood and fabric
design is the Jodel, which is similar to the Emeraurde but has a unique
"bent" wing. Some of the smaller simpler models ones can be built in 1000
hours or therabouts.
snip


Anything designed by Claude Piel will be an excellent airplane and the plans
are very good. Many of his designs are certified. The Emeraude is a very
nice one. So are the Diamant and the Beryll. Most of his designs are named
after jewels. An Emeraude powered by an O-200 Continental ( which you can
buy for a fraction of the cost of the Lycoming used in the RV series ) makes
an extremely gentle and flyable airplane that is a pleasure to fly. It is
not a two hundred mile an hour airplane but it will fly very slowly under
complete control and if the engine quits you will most likely walk away
without injury and likely the airplane will as well. The beautiful
elliptical wing is lovely but a chore to build since no more than two parts
are the same and they are likely a left and right hand pair! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

I just had to put this in. I owned a Yankee and I found that it was the best
plane that I have ever flown. It just became a part of you when you got in
and it handled great. It was fast for just a 235 engine and if I were not
disabled I would be looking for another one. I hae seen a number of Bede's
kit planes BD4's and BD10-J and all in all they have been very good. The way
that I see it the people that say that they are no goo are the ones that
have never flown one. I will say that you have to be on your toes most of
the time but that is where the fun comes from for me. People that just want
to set back and let the plane do everything had best stay away from Bede's
planes

"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,

I'm not trying to promote Jime Bede. I've never even owned a Yankee or any
of Jim's other designs -- alhtough I know several Grumanns owners and they
are excellent flying airplanes.

The BD-18 does seem like "vaporware" right now, but the smaller
single-seat
BD-17 has flown and I don't see why the BD-18 shouldn't fly just fine.

Another possibility for building an aluminum two-seater from plans is
Chris
Heintz's Zenith 601 series. With a Lyc 235 max cruise is "only" 138mph,
but
stall would be lower than on an RV-9. The Zenith actually has a little
more
wing area than the RV with a max weight that is conisederably lower.

You can use a Rotax 912, Jabiru, Continental O-200, or Lycoming on this
plane, or even a Corvair. Lots of people build these from scratch and they
use pulled "Avex" rivets, so no bucking -- which means they go together a
lot quicker.

Personally, I understand Netgeek's point about wanting to build from
scratch. While Van's prices are very attractive compared to what's out
there, I think the actual material costs are probably only a fraction of
that. There are lots of people who build metal planes from scratch. I know
a
couple of guys who are building all-metal Polliwagons.

Regards,

Gordon.

PS: I would still rather build a wood plane.


"C.D.Damron" wrote in message
news:Ibu5e.2589$8Z6.1278@attbi_s21...

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
Has it flown yet? How many are flying, and how many hours?


How dare you ask the obvious.

Richard Riley wrote:
I agree with you about the BD-4. But every single BD10 that's flown
has killed the pilot, except for the prototype - and the pilot there
was VERY lucky to get it back on the ground after the vertical failed.

No it hasn't!!!
Jim Prebie is still alive, although in prison for awhile after he built
and flew it.

Richard Riley wrote:
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:27:17 GMT, john smith wrote:

:Richard Riley wrote:
: I agree with you about the BD-4. But every single BD10 that's flown
: has killed the pilot, except for the prototype - and the pilot there
: was VERY lucky to get it back on the ground after the vertical failed.
:
:No it hasn't!!!
:Jim Prebie is still alive, although in prison for awhile after he built
:and flew it.

I don't know Prebie, and I don't find a record for a BD-10 with that
name as owner or builder.

I cannot even find an NTSB record for a gear-up accident involving the
aircraft at KMRT, Marysville OH. Photos are somewhere in my archives.

john smith wrote:
Richard Riley wrote:
I agree with you about the BD-4. But every single BD10 that's flown
has killed the pilot, except for the prototype - and the pilot there
was VERY lucky to get it back on the ground after the vertical failed.

No it hasn't!!!
Jim Prebie is still alive, although in prison for awhile after he built
and flew it.

Ok, I'll ask, why was Jim Prebie in prison for a while? Did that
have anything to do with his BD10?

--

FF

wrote:
Ok, I'll ask, why was Jim Prebie in prison for a while? Did that
have anything to do with his BD10?

Something like income tax evasion???
The aircraft was sold to pay the bill.
I don't know where it went.