New demands for more GA security

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
news:ihatessppaamm-

Which leads to a question of mine as to whether or not the koran actually
does give the option of killing nonbelievers...


Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously
with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Koran 9:73

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Know that God is
with the righteous.

Koran 9:23

The believers who stay at home-apart from those that suffer a grave
impediment-are not the equal of those who fight for the cause of God with
their goods and their persons. God has given those that fight with their
goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home. God has
promised all a good reward; but far richer is the recompense of those who
fight for Him...He that leaves his dwelling to fight for God and His apostle
and is then overtaken by death, shall be rewarded by God....The unbelievers
are your inveterate enemies.

Koran 4:95-101.

Just a small selection of quotes from Sam Harris' book. I'm looking for the
part about death being the mandatory punishment for violation of the
commandments.

It's nothing more than selectively ignoring certain parts of the "perfect
word" that we mange to maintain any type of civility. Eventually, we will
have to ignore it all if we ever want to truly evolve.

mike

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
"mike regish" wrote in
:

Deuteronomy 13:7-11

There's one. I can find more.

Yes, it can certainly be read as you describe. However, keep in
mind that Deuteronomy is one of the oldest books of the Bible
and was written thousands of years ago, when the world was far
different than it is today.

And we're pretty much the same as we were 2000 years ago?

Do you think that all religions who hold the Bible sacred would
take such a statement as a literal command?

The bible also says that it is to be interpreted literally.

Do you mean to imply
that, for instance, a Catholic or even a Jew (Deuteronomy is part
of the Torah, IIRC) should go on a murderous rampage based on this
passage?

If their book is the perfect word of god, yes.


More to the point, do these religions suggest doing so
TODAY?

I don't think there were any time limits on the word of god. I'm pretty sure
there's no place in any religious text that says "Only follow these
instructions for 2000 years, then change."

Having been raised a Catholic and having gone through Catholic
schooling, I do not ever recall being told that I should go and
stone someone because they want me to change beliefs.

Because that part of the religion doesn't fit any more...but it is still
there.

I suppose I should have killed those two Jehovah Witness's that
used to visit me a few years ago? After all, it's in the Bible,
right? Therefore I was simply following what my Bible told me
to do, right? I should not be held accountable for my actions,
because I was practicing my religion, which is granted protection
under the Constitution of the United States, right? Heck, since
you seem opposed to "my God", I should hunt you down and kill you
too, right? After all, my Bible says to do so, right?

Right...on all counts. Do you believe in God or don't you? Did he write a
piece of crap or the true word? Are you a believer or a hypocrite?

No, what you are referring to is fundamental extremism.

No. What I'm referring to is religious hypocrisy.

Yes, a
group of people could take that passage in the most fundamental
and literal sense and act on it. But that does not make it right
and I would not support such action.

You want a list of crap in the bible that's not right? And that you wouldn't
support? Read the freakin' thing.

Show me something that says the bible is not to be taken literally. It
should say "Fiction" on the binder, but it doesn't.


You are making the false sweeping generalization that just because
there are some phucked up in the head people who twist the Bible
(or other books) as an excuse to commit their misdeeds, that ALL
people who hold such Books sacred must be guilty of the same crime.

Nothing needs to be twisted. It's all right there in black and white.

mike

"mike regish" wrote in message
. ..
Deuteronomy 13:7-11

I don't know if that's old testament or new and don't really care.

How ironic that the person who is blaming the book is one of the people
abusing it.

"mike regish" wrote in
:

Snipola

Ok...so in order for me to not be a hypocrite anymore, can
you give me your address so I can come over and blow your
head off with a .44 magnum? Oh, wait...it says "stoned".
Ok...I'll just beat your head in with rocks then.



Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

On 2006-03-01, Skywise wrote:
Do you think that all religions who hold the Bible sacred would
take such a statement as a literal command? Do you mean to imply
that, for instance, a Catholic or even a Jew (Deuteronomy is part
of the Torah, IIRC) should go on a murderous rampage based on this
passage? More to the point, do these religions suggest doing so
TODAY?

I doubt it's based just on this passage, but there's been enough
sectarian violence between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland
based solely on the minute differences between beliefs that it wouldn't
surprise me if there was still violence predicated on passages like
this.

Then the Catholic priests who won't condemn the violence either, just
dismissing it with 'it's complicated'

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

On 2006-03-01, mike regish wrote:
It's nothing more than selectively ignoring certain parts of the "perfect
word" that we mange to maintain any type of civility. Eventually, we will
have to ignore it all if we ever want to truly evolve.

Not merely ignore it, but reject it.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

How so?

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"mike regish" wrote in message
. ..
Deuteronomy 13:7-11

I don't know if that's old testament or new and don't really care.

How ironic that the person who is blaming the book is one of the people
abusing it.

It IS your duty.

"Skywise" wrote in message
...
"mike regish" wrote in
:

Snipola

Ok...so in order for me to not be a hypocrite anymore, can
you give me your address so I can come over and blow your
head off with a .44 magnum? Oh, wait...it says "stoned".
Ok...I'll just beat your head in with rocks then.



Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Agreed.

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...

Not merely ignore it, but reject it.

--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net

That would do. But he quotes some much more undeniable text, too.

wrote in message
oups.com...

mike regish wrote:
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
news:ihatessppaamm-

Which leads to a question of mine as to whether or not the koran
actually
does give the option of killing nonbelievers...


Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal
rigorously
with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Hinges on the meaning of 'war'. Lyndon Johnson did not advocate
killing
poor people as part of his war on poverty.

Indeed, if the word in the text would be more accurately translated as
'jihad', then it could be interpreted as readily to mean to resist the
influence of unbelievers or to convert them. 'Jihad' may be translated
as 'struggle' war is but one variety of 'jihad'.

...

Just a small selection of quotes from Sam Harris' book. I'm looking for
the
part about death being the mandatory punishment for violation of the
commandments.

You mean something equivalent to "The wages of sin are death."????

--

FF