Could training at a towered airport have prevented the ADIZ bust

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:id5he.101$n95.47@trndny08...
Kev wrote:

So one question is (because I don't know), is flight following easy to
get in that area?

Yep. It's real easy to have your flight followed by an F-16. :-(

Would an A2A missile be able to lock on the exhaust of a C150?

George Patterson wrote:
abripl wrote:

I don't know what it is about cuffing people that some cops are
addicted to.

What it is is that entirely too many cops have been killedv or
injured because
they didn't cuff someone.

Its not just in this case but I saw it in nearly ordinary
automobile traffic cases.

Yep. I remember a routine traffic stop in Knoxville back around 1970.
The driver
shot the officer through the door and drove away. Made a few changes
to the
rules right there.

Dittos. Can't remember how many times I've read in the paper about a
cop getting shot at on a "routine traffic stop." Sure, 9999 out of
10000 it's no big deal, but when guessing wrong = dead cop, I give them
the benefit of the doubt.

Which doesn't mean that a lot of them aren't often Barney Fife
breathing-their-own-exhaust jackasses. Personally I live in a lage city
and would take big city cops over the boonie guys any day. And I grew
up in the boonies so I know that of which I speak.

-cwk.

G. Sylvester wrote:
Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with. The fact that learning to operate
in controlled airspace wouldn't be hard doesn't by any means imply that
the pilot isn't a doorknob. From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

Matt Barrow wrote:

It doesn't sound like a case of not cuffing him; more like the bad guy was
still in his car.

True. So? Incidents like that got the rules for engagement changed.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

Matt Barrow wrote:

Would an A2A missile be able to lock on the exhaust of a C150?

I would lay heavy odds that they're not using heat-seekers in the ADIZ. Too big
a chance that it would lock into a turbine coming into Dulles or Reagan. Almost
certainly they're armed with missiles that use a visual lock on the target.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

wrote:
G. Sylvester wrote:

Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.
Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with.

I wasn't specifically talking about Smoketown, just giving the
other side of the story. I just looked and you're right, it's about
50nm from BWI and PHL. Even in a blazing fast C150 that would
take all of 30 minutes to be on the airport. I'm wondering how
did these guys not bust all the other airspace yet practically
flew over the White House.

From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

No kidding.

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

Gerald

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
om...
wrote:
G. Sylvester wrote:

Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.
Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with.

I wasn't specifically talking about Smoketown, just giving the
other side of the story. I just looked and you're right, it's about
50nm from BWI and PHL. Even in a blazing fast C150 that would
take all of 30 minutes to be on the airport. I'm wondering how
did these guys not bust all the other airspace yet practically
flew over the White House.

From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

No kidding.

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

Gerald

Why does he find that amazing? You can fly coast to coast and never talk to
ATC or you can talk to ATC for the entire trip. Whatever floats your boat.

G. Sylvester wrote:

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

I don't know why he finds that amazing. I've made the trip from New Jersey to
Knoxville, TN several times without speaking to any controllers except those at
Knoxville. That's over 600 miles each way. The only other radio calls I made
were the usual ones ("three miles out", "entering downwind", etc.) at my
untowered fuel stop. When I flew down to Fort Myers, I talked to Orlando on the
way down. On the way back, I didn't bother -- just went under it. Many other
trips -- same procedure.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:C9che.42$Vu6.25@trndny03...
Matt Barrow wrote:

It doesn't sound like a case of not cuffing him; more like the bad guy
was
still in his car.

True. So? Incidents like that got the rules for engagement changed.

As I recall from your original, this occured some 15 years ago; current
procedures for police making traffic stops have been in place since the late
70's to early 80's depending on the jurisdiction.

The traffic stop is still the second most common killing ground for police.
Being shot through the door while approaching the car is the #1 occurance.

Cuffing bad guys when placed in the car AFTER ARREST has been standard
procedure for decades, and cages around the back seats have been normal
equipment since then.

So? So how did the incident you bring up change the rules of engagement.

Matt Barrow wrote:

As I recall from your original, this occured some 15 years ago;

You do not recall correctly. This occurred about 35 years ago.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.