Who has bought a new Garmin 396?

"Maule Driver" wrote:
OTOH, I'll bet the market will speak clearly over the next 3 years. Nexrad
will rule and sferics will be gone.

I agree. One of the spherics mfrs. is already running ads defending its
product against data linked weather. That's a sign to me they know they're
in trouble. Stormscope and Strikefinder are headed the way of Loran,
IMO--pretty good technology overcome by better.

Having said that, let me add that I would love to have a spherics device in
my panel for the real time data it would provide. But would I buy one now
and install it, knowing the utility I get from satellite weather? Heck, no.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

In article ,
Maule Driver wrote:

Well, I don't have any experience with sferics but I have a hard time
buying that it is superior to Nexrad. Just doesn't compute. But maybe
one day someone will give me a ride and a demo.

It seems that those folks in this thread who are are quick to dismiss
sferics also admit to not having a sferics device.

I've had a StrikeFinder for years, and have flown with XM weather for
about 4 months now. I can tell you that the StrikeFinder has identified
areas of convective activity that haven't yet appeared on the XM radar
image. The StrikeFinder is also substantially more accurate at
lightning depiction, which is important information in determining the
intensity of a storm. The lightning data provided via the XM link is
not nearly as reliable for use in detecting developing storm cells.

The radar image sent down by XM is base reflectivity at a single tilt,
most likely a low-angle return. This means that it does a good job of
measuring low-level precipitation (falling to the ground), but a poor
job of providing any information as to storm structure. The echo tops
product provides a much better picture of storm structure.

The fact that the StrikeFinder and similar devices are often able to
detect convective activity before it appears on a base reflectivity
image is significant, in my opinion. Also significant is the fact that
the sferics device provides real-time data, not data that is delayed 5
or 15 minutes. And there is no monthly subscription fee.

However, the sferics devices cost thousands of dollars to purchase and
have installed. They are very good at doing only one thing, and
providing you with one specific type of information. Based on my
experience, I think that the sferics devices are excellent
severe-weather avoidance devices. For the IFR pilot who may be flying
in or through weather, or for the long X-C VFR pilot, the additional
data available with weather uplink is hard to beat. However, it's
important to understand what you're getting and how to interpret it with
the weather uplink--the XM radar base reflectivity and lightning data
alone don't come close to telling the whole story.



JKG

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:

[snip good points]

However, the sferics devices cost thousands of dollars to purchase and
have installed. They are very good at doing only one thing, and
providing you with one specific type of information.

Exactly so, and that's what's going to kill them. Love to have one, but
the marginal increment in capability it would give me over what I have
with WxWorx simply isn't worth the cost to me.

Based on my
experience, I think that the sferics devices are excellent
severe-weather avoidance devices. For the IFR pilot who may be flying
in or through weather, or for the long X-C VFR pilot, the additional
data available with weather uplink is hard to beat. However, it's
important to understand what you're getting and how to interpret it
with
the weather uplink--the XM radar base reflectivity and lightning data
alone don't come close to telling the whole story.

Yup. But would you pay to have a Stormscope put in your plane today?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:
Based on my
experience, I think that the sferics devices are excellent
severe-weather avoidance devices. For the IFR pilot who may be flying
in or through weather, or for the long X-C VFR pilot, the additional
data available with weather uplink is hard to beat. However, it's
important to understand what you're getting and how to interpret it
with
the weather uplink--the XM radar base reflectivity and lightning data
alone don't come close to telling the whole story.

Yup. But would you pay to have a Stormscope put in your plane today?


If I didn't want to pay for the full $50/month weather uplink but I
wanted to fly in thunderstorm-prone areas, then yes. With full weather
uplink and some basic education on how to interpret the data, probably
not. There is a lot of information between the base reflectivity image
and echo tops, but there is NOT sufficient information in just the radar
image, in my opinion. To get echo tops, you have to spend the
$50/month. However, at $600/year you're still looking at a few years
time before you pay for the sferics device.



JKG

Rate mode on-----

I don't think they've fixed anything. Mine still goes offline if I don't
turn it on every few weeks. On a flight this past weekend, I had no
service. Rats. Call 1-800-BlondToTheRoots and they refresh. Now I have a
'Radio' on the return flight. Yes, I mean "basic' not 'Aviator'. Call
Huntsville. Will you people please call 1-800 people and tell them about
this great feature that is broadcast over their system called XM Weather.
Refresh my 'radio' for the Aviator I've paid for during last 3 years and
never seem to get on a reliable basis?

These people need some real competition so they can stop being like Garmin.
Rate mode off {|;-(

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"Newps" wrote in message
...



I stopped by the XM booth at AirVenture and inquired about this.
The rep explained that it was their problem and that it has been fixed
and should not continue to happen.

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
Yup. But would you pay to have a Stormscope put in your plane today?

If I didn't want to pay for the full $50/month weather uplink but I
wanted to fly in thunderstorm-prone areas, then yes. With full weather
uplink and some basic education on how to interpret the data, probably
not. There is a lot of information between the base reflectivity image
and echo tops, but there is NOT sufficient information in just the radar
image, in my opinion. To get echo tops, you have to spend the
$50/month. However, at $600/year you're still looking at a few years
time before you pay for the sferics device.

Was that a yes or a no? Sounds like a no.

This feels like a classic "old school/new school" debate. On one hand,
those with experience in say, ADF/VOR/DME nav, clearly see the
continuing value in these device. On the other, those entering the
scene "AG" (After GPS) wonder why those devices exist (dual navs??).

Sferics apparently work quite well. Having never used one, I'll never
install one in the future. By the same token, I've yet to hear an
airline jockey fail to mention the desirability of on board radar to
augment downlinked weather. Well, go ahead and install the pod on your
P210. But the post downlink pilots won't be doing it in their
Cirrus/Lancairs.

I'm thinking that downlinked weather is the price/performance sweet spot
for piston GA - and will be for a few years.

"Victor J. Osborne, Jr." wrote in message
...
Rate mode on-----

I don't think they've fixed anything. Mine still goes offline if I don't
turn it on every few weeks. On a flight this past weekend, I had no
service. Rats. Call 1-800-BlondToTheRoots and they refresh. Now I have
a 'Radio' on the return flight. Yes, I mean "basic' not 'Aviator'. Call
Huntsville. Will you people please call 1-800 people and tell them about
this great feature that is broadcast over their system called XM Weather.
Refresh my 'radio' for the Aviator I've paid for during last 3 years and
never seem to get on a reliable basis?

These people need some real competition so they can stop being like
Garmin.
Rate mode off {|;-(


I'm curious Victor. Is your plane in a hanger on a tie-down?

In article ,
Maule Driver wrote:
If I didn't want to pay for the full $50/month weather uplink but I
wanted to fly in thunderstorm-prone areas, then yes. With full weather
uplink and some basic education on how to interpret the data, probably
not. There is a lot of information between the base reflectivity image
and echo tops, but there is NOT sufficient information in just the radar
image, in my opinion. To get echo tops, you have to spend the
$50/month. However, at $600/year you're still looking at a few years
time before you pay for the sferics device.

Was that a yes or a no? Sounds like a no.

This feels like a classic "old school/new school" debate. On one hand,
those with experience in say, ADF/VOR/DME nav, clearly see the
continuing value in these device. On the other, those entering the
scene "AG" (After GPS) wonder why those devices exist (dual navs??).

That isn't what it is, please re-read my response. I answered "yes" and
I answered "no" depending on the type of flying that one would typically
do and my willingness to fork over $50/month to XM.

The weather data provided by XM _DOES NOT_ provide the same type of
information as a StrikeFinder, and it certainly doesn't provide
information in real time. Echo Tops, which can be used to judge storm
structure and identify cells before they appear on the reflectivity
radar image, only updates every 12 minutes via XM. Lightning only
updates every 15 minutes.

The bottom line is that the sferics and weather uplink are complementary
devices that provide complementary information. I'm not sure that I
need the $50/month subscription since I have a StrikeFinder; I can
probably get by using the $30/month subscription and combine the radar
data with the data from my StrikeFinder.



JKG