New Orleans: Fly low and slow over Convention Center to air drop?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave Stadt wrote:
"sfb" wrote in message news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing
roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was far
beyond reasonable.

It took 9/11 for us to take terrorism seriously. Perhaps now we will
take civil defense seriously. I live in Boston and while we're not
below sea level, a 20' storm surge (let along dirty bomb or attack on
an LNG terminal) would make one hell of a mess. Now I suspect there

will be a lot more people asking the local gov't just what the plan
would be should we be staring down a similar barrel.

-cwk.

Hopefully from the current disorganized mess some good will come. NO, LA
and the feds were out smoking dope or doing something other that what they
should have been doing. NY handled 9/11 infinitely better and they had no
warning. Granted, the scale is much different. The response to the most
current disaster after several years of homeland security gibberish is
atrocious.

Greg Copeland wrote on 09/02/05 12:36:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:58:27 +0000, john smith wrote:


Isn't it interesting that just this morning, the the governor of
Lousiana finally issued the order to shot to kill looters.


They didn't do it earlier because too many police would have been shot by
other cops.


Just yesterday, a local news guy who was stuck in one hotel there
explained how it came cops were seen "looting":
Some doctors treating people in the hotel asked the cops to get medicine
from the Walgreens across the street...
To the TV viewer safely at home, this of course looked like looting, but
in reality, it was helping to save lives.

-Joe

Dave S wrote:

well, considering body temp ranges from 97-99 on average.

Are you comparing the state of medicine sitting in a bottle on a shelf to
medicine injected into the body?

--
Peter


















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Isn't the point demanding instant results when things take time and is
often the case, too much time.

We tend to forget many of the challenges like they can't work at night
because of the lack of lights. Driving at night is very dangerous
because of the destruction of stop signs and traffic signals.

People can't even agree on a time line. Katrina hit Monday and there is
video of the NG all over the New Orleans on Friday which seems closer to
four days than six.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message
news:kS7Se.977$IT4.248@trnddc04...
You remember correctly, but it takes time to assemble troops in
armories, load vehicles, and move into the disaster areas clearing
roads
and bridges of debris as necessary.

Six days? That's nuts. Even Bush is saying the time to respond was
far
beyond reasonable.


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"sfb" wrote in message
newswZRe.8$Sx4.7@trnddc06...
Katrina is an enormous challenge in logistics. New Orleans is at
the
southern end of a very large damaged area. It takes time to clear
roads,
inspect bridges, etc. I saw one photo where every single power
pole
for
a half mile or so was snapped off and lying across the road.
Whether
that was a main road is unknown, but clearing that kind of damage
takes
time.

You can't just run the National Guard in without food, water, fuel
for
vehicles, places to rest else the NG becomes refugees within a
couple
of
days.

Seems I remember seeing on quite a few occasions the NG bringing
all
that
stuff with them. Do they now stay at Hiltons and have their meals
catered?



wrote in message
ups.com...
I really can't stand the situation that is occuring in the
Convention
Center. There are about two thousand at the Convention Center
with
NO
police or rescue personel onsite. Babies have no milk. At least
two
dead bodies are there. An SUV with one police officer drove by
and
raced away. One girl has been raped.

sfb wrote:

Isn't the point demanding instant results when things take time and is
often the case, too much time.

We tend to forget many of the challenges like they can't work at night
because of the lack of lights. Driving at night is very dangerous
because of the destruction of stop signs and traffic signals.

People can't even agree on a time line. Katrina hit Monday and there is
video of the NG all over the New Orleans on Friday which seems closer to
four days than six.

Not only that, it's not like there was NO action between Monday and Friday.
For example:

I don't have all the details, but I do know an AF Combat Controller team
from Hurlburt (Happy Hurbie Airplane Patch to some of us) went in to New
Orleans Airport on Wednesday to open it up for relief flights. Here's the
news release on that, dated 31 August:

HURLBURT FIELD, Fla. - Air Force Special Operations Command will fly an
MC-130 aircraft into New Orleans International Airport tonight with a small
team of special operations forces to work to reopen the runway.

A team of combat controllers and a small medical team will work to establish
operations at the airport, which has no electricity or air traffic control.
Combat controllers are certified air traffic controllers and special
operators who can open airfields deep behind enemy lines or in other
hazardous areas.

The combat controllers will set self-powered lights and other navigational
aids, then function as air traffic controllers with portable radios so that
other military aircraft can land and help evacuate around 2,500 ill, or
injured persons from the New Orleans area.

AFSOC has also flown more than 34 aircraft to Jackson, Miss., to support
Hurricane Katrina relief.

The deployed aircraft include 19 HH-60 Pave Hawk rescue helicopters
specifically designed to find and recover individuals in hazardous areas.
AFSOC has also deployed 11 C-130 aircraft with various special mission
capabilities, including helicopter refueling and the ability to operate
from dirt or unimproved airfields.

AFSOC has sent pararescuemen and combat controllers to Jackson to work in
conjunction with the aircraft. Pararescuemen are highly trained emergency
medical technician special operators. Combat controllers and pararescuemen
are accustomed to operating in the most difficult and hostile conditions
and are trained in numerous special operations skills such as SCUBA and
parachute operations.


--
Saville

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/backstaffhome.html

Restoration of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/SBOATrestore.htm

Steambending FAQ with photos:

http://home.comcast.net/~saville/Steambend.htm

I did look the other day and the TFR was surface to 5,000. So no low and
slow. That settles it.
--
Chris Ehlbeck, PP-ASEL
"It's a license to learn, have fun and buy really expensive hamburgers."

"John Doe" wrote in message
news:ZvZRe.8401$8q.3935@lakeread01...
The airspace has already been declared off limits and you're going to need
to pay me much more than your offer for me to risk my ability to fly for a
case of water. Oh, by the way, some thugs would probably just steal the
water and then try to sell it for whatever they could get for it and it
wouldn't meet the intended purpose.

Calm down and realize help is on the way.

Maybe more of these people should have heeded the warnings and "MANDATORY
EVACUATION" that was DIRECTED prior to the storm.


wrote in message
ups.com...
I am familiar with restricted airspace. I live in Washington DC and
have seen his multicoloured maps of the area.

For New Orleans, obivously when the Pres visits or flies over is not
the time to be in the air space. I personally think he shouldn't visit
the area now. If he really does want to visit, he could slip in
'undercover' in a National Guard uniform. After he leaves if could be
made public.

As for being forced to land, I would take that and run with it
publically. It would embarrass the government that they haven't yet run
a few C-130's over the area and kicked out MRE pallets and water kits.

This is not rock science. At the current speed of evactions, many
survivers will be dead by the time a bus arrives for them.

Blanket the damn area with MREs and water kits from the sky.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

I bet Darrel would be surprised how many of the poor people have not only
phones but also cell phones.

I used to be in a very competitive pager and later cabletv business
(only overbuilt community in LA), in the end poor people don't pay their
bills. In the long run a pay-as-you-geaux cellphone is probably cheaper
than having a hardwired one...

Its amazing how expert usenet posters are about conditions over here,
through watching teevee. I've lived here all my life except for 3 of my
46 years. It doesn't take a flood or hurricane to kill people over here..

Hail to the arm-chair quarterbacks of rec.aviation

Right, drop some pallets of water (about 7lbs per gallon) out of a moving
C-130 and stand back and watch the fun. If anything survives, one probably
would squash at least a few of those people who need the help.
The ugly reality is that these people don't live in the Hampton's and will
simply have to wait for help from their government.


wrote in message
ups.com...
I am familiar with restricted airspace. I live in Washington DC and
have seen his multicoloured maps of the area.

For New Orleans, obivously when the Pres visits or flies over is not
the time to be in the air space. I personally think he shouldn't visit
the area now. If he really does want to visit, he could slip in
'undercover' in a National Guard uniform. After he leaves if could be
made public.

As for being forced to land, I would take that and run with it
publically. It would embarrass the government that they haven't yet run
a few C-130's over the area and kicked out MRE pallets and water kits.

This is not rock science. At the current speed of evactions, many
survivers will be dead by the time a bus arrives for them.

Blanket the damn area with MREs and water kits from the sky.

Do your kits filter out gasoline, diesel, and about 1000 other chemicals in
the toxic mix inside NO?


wrote in message
oups.com...
The kits have picture diagrams for usage on the packaging.

Once one person figures out how to make drinkable water, I'm sure
others will copy what he/she did.

Does part of your "hard truth" include the invalids, children, sick,
hospitalized, mentally insane, amputees and people who were too poor to own
a car?

Now, if you had said this was an example of Social Darwinism, I would have
agreed with you.

These people, for the most part, were left behind because they were poor, or
stupid, or otherwise unable to make good decisions.

Don't be so ****ing heartless.


"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...
You need to quit trying to freelance and contribute to an existing relief
effort. You are asking someone to essentially throw their pilots license
in the trash by assisting you in your well intentioned but misguided ploy.
Their certificate would be revoked on an emergency basis, and likely
permanently revoked. If you are lucky, the drop wont hit someone on the
head, killing them.

The COLD HARD TRUTH is that many people bear SOME of the responsibility
for the situation they are in.

They were told to get out. SOME couldnt. Many CHOSE not to.

Prudence dictates that you keep a ready supply of your prescription meds,
and TAKE THE MED BOTTLES WITH YOU when you leave home.

Common decency says dont shoot at the goddamn helicopters trying to bring
you food and water, and give you a ride out.

You cant fly relief in until the hurricane is gone. You cant truck relief
in over a demolished bridge. You cant snap your fingers and make a
division of guardsmen appear in 2 hours. It takes time to mobilize
resources.

Yes.. You are right.. people are dying. People died on the bus ride to
houston last night, and no, this wasn't on the news, and no, its not
heresay.

Send your 4 grand to the red cross and if you want to help, call them and
ask what YOU can do to help, UNDER THEIR DIRECTION. If you were interested
in helping people, you would have joined up with such an organization
ahead of time, being proactive, rather than REACTING after the fact.

Dave


wrote:
The kits have picture diagrams for usage on the packaging.

Once one person figures out how to make drinkable water, I'm sure
others will copy what he/she did.