Can I fly it at night?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:q71vf.40583$QW2.3201@dukeread08...

If you can't find an original wind generator and mount
system, the drawings should be available and you can
fabricate repair parts.


To repair a generator you do not have?

Yes, the drawing are approved data and you can "repair them
and have those repaired parts approved. Yes, you do have to
jump through the hoops, but it can be done.

The feds will look at your materials list, fabrication
methods and such parts that you substitute, such as an
alternator for a generator, to assure that they are
airworthy. Most FAA types do the job because they love
airplane, stroke their egos just a little and they will help
you get your airplane in the air. But they are bureaucrats,
show some respect for the procedure, get their help and
approval first.

The wind generator does not have to be original factory
installed in 1941 on that model airplane. It could be from
any similar airplane anytime from 1941 to the present time.
Your job is to show a proper method for attachment of a wind
driven something on the airplane. So if you find a spray
rig for a Champ, Cub or Chief, you can infer that the
installation of a generator/alternator in the same manner in
the same location would have the same aerodynamic effect
[none/insignificant] and similarly show each part you will
install has met the FAA standards on other aircraft of
similar types.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:q71vf.40583$QW2.3201@dukeread08...
|
| If you can't find an original wind generator and mount
| system, the drawings should be available and you can
| fabricate repair parts.
|
|
| To repair a generator you do not have?
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:bO1vf.40586$QW2.11660@dukeread08...

Yes, the drawing are approved data and you can "repair them
and have those repaired parts approved. Yes, you do have to
jump through the hoops, but it can be done.

The feds will look at your materials list, fabrication
methods and such parts that you substitute, such as an
alternator for a generator, to assure that they are
airworthy. Most FAA types do the job because they love
airplane, stroke their egos just a little and they will help
you get your airplane in the air. But they are bureaucrats,
show some respect for the procedure, get their help and
approval first.

The wind generator does not have to be original factory
installed in 1941 on that model airplane. It could be from
any similar airplane anytime from 1941 to the present time.
Your job is to show a proper method for attachment of a wind
driven something on the airplane. So if you find a spray
rig for a Champ, Cub or Chief, you can infer that the
installation of a generator/alternator in the same manner in
the same location would have the same aerodynamic effect
[none/insignificant] and similarly show each part you will
install has met the FAA standards on other aircraft of
similar types.


You're not repairing anything, you're fabricating a new appliance.

from old, approved drawings, and since the presence of the
wiring indicates that there once was a generator installed,
I would be repairing the aircraft.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
k.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:bO1vf.40586$QW2.11660@dukeread08...
|
| Yes, the drawing are approved data and you can "repair
them
| and have those repaired parts approved. Yes, you do
have to
| jump through the hoops, but it can be done.
|
| The feds will look at your materials list, fabrication
| methods and such parts that you substitute, such as an
| alternator for a generator, to assure that they are
| airworthy. Most FAA types do the job because they love
| airplane, stroke their egos just a little and they will
help
| you get your airplane in the air. But they are
bureaucrats,
| show some respect for the procedure, get their help and
| approval first.
|
| The wind generator does not have to be original factory
| installed in 1941 on that model airplane. It could be
from
| any similar airplane anytime from 1941 to the present
time.
| Your job is to show a proper method for attachment of a
wind
| driven something on the airplane. So if you find a
spray
| rig for a Champ, Cub or Chief, you can infer that the
| installation of a generator/alternator in the same
manner in
| the same location would have the same aerodynamic effect
| [none/insignificant] and similarly show each part you
will
| install has met the FAA standards on other aircraft of
| similar types.
|
|
| You're not repairing anything, you're fabricating a new
appliance.
|
|

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

How long is a "short" flight? Have you determined what the power
requirements are for the anticollision, position, and instrument lights for
a flight of that length? Have you done any calculations on the weight?

My original post was intended to start the process of
looking at the problems I would encounter, so I had not done
a lot of work on the practicality of the project.
Nonetheless, since the plane originally had lights, it seems
reasonable to expect that this is possible to do.

As to your questions, I've thought a bit about power
requirements. There are three position lights. I've seen
LED systems that draw less than 1.5 amps total for the three
lights. The strobe LED system I looked at had specs of .4
amps at 24 volts, so it's probably close to twice that at 12
volts, say 2.5 amps for the whole system if I spend lots of
cash for an LED based system. I currently use a single 8 AH
sealed lead acid, and could afford the weight of two more of
those, so an hour flight seems possible with some margin and
that still leaves a fully charged backup battery and my comm
battery.

Does anyone here have current draw specs for standard lights
and strobes?

When I first considered this, I hoped I could just replace
the bulbs, and substitute a sealed lead acid for original
dry cells. It didn't take much work to confirm I'd need to
install at least a strobe, and it looks like a wind
generator is probably also needed to get it back to its
original certified condition. Does anyone know of any
aircraft flying at night using only batteries?

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:SFavf.40609$QW2.12408@dukeread08...

from old, approved drawings, and since the presence of the
wiring indicates that there once was a generator installed,
I would be repairing the aircraft.


The presence of the wiring does not indicate a generator was installed.
Wiring for navigation lights was factory-installed standard equipment.
Navigation lights, landing lights, radio gear, battery, and a wind-driven
generator were optional equipment.

Maybe "bstanton" could get together with "keepitrunning"? One of them has
too much electricity http://tinyurl.com/8zydr and the other needs some. If
they share ideas, it should all balance out and be feng shooie.

Rich S.

"Half this game is ninety percent mental."
-- Philadelphia Phillies manager, Danny Ozark

"bstanton" null.com wrote in message
...

My original post was intended to start the process of
looking at the problems I would encounter, so I had not done
a lot of work on the practicality of the project.
Nonetheless, since the plane originally had lights, it seems
reasonable to expect that this is possible to do.


Well, it's certainly possible to run position lights, but that's not enough
today, today you also need an anticollision light. When your airplane was
built wiring for navigation lights was factory-installed standard equipment.
Navigation lights, landing lights, radio gear, battery, and a wind-driven
generator were optional equipment. You said there are lights on each
wingtip and the fin, are there actual lampholders there or is there just a
mounting pad for them? I have a 7AC, they were also pre-wired for position
lights but I never saw one that had them. The mount pads are clearly
discernible under the fabric, however.



As to your questions, I've thought a bit about power
requirements. There are three position lights. I've seen
LED systems that draw less than 1.5 amps total for the three
lights. The strobe LED system I looked at had specs of .4
amps at 24 volts, so it's probably close to twice that at 12
volts, say 2.5 amps for the whole system if I spend lots of
cash for an LED based system. I currently use a single 8 AH
sealed lead acid, and could afford the weight of two more of
those, so an hour flight seems possible with some margin and
that still leaves a fully charged backup battery and my comm
battery.

Does anyone here have current draw specs for standard lights
and strobes?

When I first considered this, I hoped I could just replace
the bulbs, and substitute a sealed lead acid for original
dry cells. It didn't take much work to confirm I'd need to
install at least a strobe, and it looks like a wind
generator is probably also needed to get it back to its
original certified condition. Does anyone know of any
aircraft flying at night using only batteries?


Do you have the type certificate data sheet for your airplane? That would
specify what electrical gear was available for installation.

I own a Champ' but like most Aeronca owners I've become a bit of a buff on
the whole line. I've seen many photos of pre-war Chiefs with the mount pads
for position lights quite discernible but without the actual lights. I've
seen some with position lights installed but without a wind-driven
generator, so it was certainly possible to operate them with just a battery.
The only Chief I recall seeing with a wind-driven generator had it mounted
above the cabin, but that was the Chief Johnnie Jones used on his
transcontinental flight in 1938 so it was probably not the standard
installation. That generator looked significantly larger than others for
this purpose.

bstanton wrote:

Does anyone here have current draw specs for standard lights
and strobes?

Whelen makes a small power supply for a single strobe that pulls 1.7 amps at 14
volts. They also make a flasher that will drive two wingtip strobes that pulls 4
amps.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Or later certified with one per 91.215(b)(3)