Silly controller

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:



The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established"
contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude,
and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed
approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance?

It's not.



I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".

Not necessary. If you are doing a whole series of practice approaches
the controller needs to tell you one time to maintain VFR. Not one time
per approach, just one time.

Jim Macklin wrote:

And if you are not IR rated and current, they just put you
in violation of the FAR.

He misunderstood, that's not what happens.

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:



I forgot to add to the scenario (and forgot to mention to the controller)
that the pilot was also given a transponder code (which I believe was the
case with the OP, and which is always my experience also). That's another
element that points to it being an IFR clearance. Probably everyone assumed
it anyway, even though of course you could also be assigned a squawk under VFR.

Everybody gets a code to get service from the approach control. It
means nothing.

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:

"Jim Macklin" writes:

And if you are not IR rated and current, they just put you
in violation of the FAR.


I didn't mention that to avoid opening that can of worms.
I think the answer is, "probably". Probably also always
gets ignored by the FAA from the enforecement standpoint.

You can't be this uninformed. You just can't be.

"Emily" wrote in message
. ..

Tell that to Chicago Center.


I have.

Tell that to Chicago Center.
I have.

What was their response?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...

What was their response?


"Okay".

"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000
until established" contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted
IFR procedure), an altitude, and a clearance limit (landing Foobar
airport,
or executing the published missed approach procedure). How is that not
an IFR clearance?

I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".


It does not contain a clearance limit. IFR training flights frequently
include approaches at intermediate airports and approach clearances for each
one, but the clearance limit remains the destination airport.

I you have filed (phone, DUATS, or "pop-up" on the radio) an IFR flight
plan to an airport, and along the way you ask for a practice approach
to some other airport, then the destination of your plan has not changed.
Yes, that would be the destination airport you said originally.

The scenario I've been talking about is where you come out nowhere VFR
and tell the controller you want an IFR approach to some airport
(which is usually real close, but could be some ways off).

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

I you have filed (phone, DUATS, or "pop-up" on the radio) an IFR flight
plan to an airport, and along the way you ask for a practice approach
to some other airport, then the destination of your plan has not changed.
Yes, that would be the destination airport you said originally.

The scenario I've been talking about is where you come out nowhere VFR
and tell the controller you want an IFR approach to some airport
(which is usually real close, but could be some ways off).


I understand completely. The example you provided did not contain a
clearance limit, thus it was not an IFR clearance. An IFR clearance must
have a clearance limit.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Jose" wrote in message
...
What was their response?


"Okay".


So you're calling me a liar? rolls eyes Ok. Until you've flown into
that airport and NOT heard them say it, don't tell me I'm wrong.