Fly It to the Ground

My response to your post is that the field will
not
neccessarily have a better survivability factor than the road. My
intention
was to broaden the factors to be considered when envisioning this
scenario.

As I recall, most forced landings do allow the occupants to
survive. The fatalities usually come as a result of the post-crash fire
where fuel was involved, or from exposure to the elements while waiting
for rescue.
So we teach our students that immediately after a forced
landing you get yourself and your pax out of the airplane and get away
from it. Fires sometimes break out some time after the airplane is
damaged. There should be a chance later on to retrieve emergency
supplies (they'd better be aboard) if the thing doesn't burn.
And, being in Canada, we always take survival kits and proper
clothing seriously. We are continually amazed at the people who will
jump into their airplanes in the dead of winter with nothing more than
a light jacket and sneakers and assume that all will be OK. If they had
to force-land and had to walk (assuming no broken legs) one mile to a
farmhouse, say, at -20°C in a 20-knot wind, they would die. Some of
these same folks will fly thorough the Rockies (no matter what time of
year) without anything more than what they wear to work. And some of
them disappear for a day or two, only to be found dead of hypothermia.
I really wouldn't want to have to ditch in water at any time
of year. Hypothermia kills in the summer, too. The survival stuff goes
down with the airplane.
All this to say that we too often assume that if we can land
the airplane under control, we'll survive. We need to be able to do
that AND live to see another Christmas.

Dan

"Danny Dot" wrote in message
...
If the engine has just done something nasty like throw a rod, the best
thing financially is to have an off field landing and total the plane. If
you land on a runway without damage, the insurance company pays nothing.

If you land on the runway without damage, what would there be for the
insurance company to pay?

I don't know about you, but my insurance policy doesn't distinguish between
accidents that occur off-airport and on-airport (well, other than a
different deductible depending on whether the airplane is in-motion and/or
moored). Even if damage *did* occur, the question of landing on a runway
versus not is irrelevant. It would be pretty foolish for a person to buy an
insurance policy that encourages a less-safe decision.

But your comment about landing on a runway *without* damage is just silly.
Of *course* the insurance company would pay nothing if there was no damage.
I have no damage every time I go flying (so far ), and every single time,
my insurance company refuses to pay. Oddly enough, I don't have any problem
with this.

Pete

"Danny Dot" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...


If the engine has just done something nasty like throw a rod, the best
thing financially is to have an off field landing and total the plane. If
you land on a runway without damage, the insurance company pays nothing.

Danny Dot

You are advocating insurance fraud? I guess we now know why you use a
psuedo-name.

You might want to look into the phrase "prudent uninsured". You might even
find it in your policy.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
A Lancair was involved in a fatal accident near Dalton, GA yesterday. It
crashed in the median of a divided 4 lane highway. The airplane had engine
problems and had time to radio distress calls. Depending on the news source,
it appears that there might have been as much as 10 to 20 minutes between
the first distress call and the crash. One story indicated that the
aircraft crashed almost 10 minutes after emergency crews had been notified
of a plane in distress.

Apparently the pilot was trying to reach the Dalton airport, which was about
3 miles from the crash scene. The airplane didn't make the airport and the
pilot was almost certainly trying to land on the road. Having seen pictures
of the aftermath, it appears that the aircraft was not under control when it
hit the ground. Perhaps the pilot stalled trying to avoid landing in traffic
(this is a busy road), clipped a utility wire, or lost control trying to
avoid wires.

Plane crashes in north Georgia, kills 1 - Examiner.com

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...06/109692.html
(may require registration)

Anyway, the point that this accident brings home is that unless you have the
opportunity to land on a road that is free of vehicular traffic and which
you know to be free of utility wires, land the airplane in a field if you
have the chance. Even more important is that you need to fly the airplane
all the way to the ground and touch down as slowly as possible. Losing
control at 50' almost guarantees a bad outcome.

I fly over the crash area all the time and can tell you that there is a fair
amount of open land nearby. That pasture (or whatever) may not look as
airplane friendly as a paved road, but for a deadstick pilot a road is like
a sucker hole for a VFR pilot. It can be a killer when something that looked
good from afar goes to you-know-what when you get a look at it up close and
personal.

My advice to all you pilots is that try to land your plane in crop
field in emergency.

It is another thing that I have seen planes only in movies and TV.

FWIW, I sat down and had a discussion with a couple old-timers and
instructors about this very subject at my club the other night.

They're point of view, which is so painfully simple I can't believe I
didn't see it myself...

"If the Engine fails, just Fly Vg".

Basically, they're whole point was the best way you make sure that you
never have to make the 'choice' to try to push a glide to the field is
simply to take that out of consideration in engine out situations. Fly
Vg from the moment the engine cuts to the moment you begin your
round-out... land wherever that puts you.

The only kink in the armor is - if you're lined up on final for a
runway and you're greater than 250 + your 360 sink altitude, do a 360.
If below that mark, use the flaps, or slip if necessary to bleed off
energy and not overshoot the runway, but whatever you do, Do not
deviate from Vg.

Similarly, if you're low... fly Vg. Keep Vg up as long as you can
(flaps retracted, of course). If you hit 10 feet above the ground and
you're not at the runway, go ahead and flare, you're not going to make
it...

This is probably a 'duh' to anyone on here but I figured it was
worth mentioning anyways.



On Nov 7, 5:12 pm, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
A Lancair was involved in a fatal accident near Dalton, GA yesterday. It
crashed in the median of a divided 4 lane highway. The airplane had engine
problems and had time to radio distress calls. Depending on the news source,
it appears that there might have been as much as 10 to 20 minutes between
the first distress call and the crash. One story indicated that the
aircraft crashed almost 10 minutes after emergency crews had been notified
of a plane in distress.

Apparently the pilot was trying to reach the Dalton airport, which was about
3 miles from the crash scene. The airplane didn't make the airport and the
pilot was almost certainly trying to land on the road. Having seen pictures
of the aftermath, it appears that the aircraft was not under control when it
hit the ground. Perhaps the pilot stalled trying to avoid landing in traffic
(this is a busy road), clipped a utility wire, or lost control trying to
avoid wires.

Plane crashes in north Georgia, kills 1 - Examiner.com

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...ing/entries/20...
(may require registration)

Anyway, the point that this accident brings home is that unless you have the
opportunity to land on a road that is free of vehicular traffic and which
you know to be free of utility wires, land the airplane in a field if you
have the chance. Even more important is that you need to fly the airplane
all the way to the ground and touch down as slowly as possible. Losing
control at 50' almost guarantees a bad outcome.

I fly over the crash area all the time and can tell you that there is a fair
amount of open land nearby. That pasture (or whatever) may not look as
airplane friendly as a paved road, but for a deadstick pilot a road is like
a sucker hole for a VFR pilot. It can be a killer when something that looked
good from afar goes to you-know-what when you get a look at it up close and
personal.

KB

Fly Vg from the moment the engine
cuts to the moment you begin your
round-out... land wherever that puts you.

You can do better if you consider the wind. Fly faster than Vg into the
wind, slower than Vg with the wind, and you will increase your range
(and likelihood of reaching something hospitable).

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Yeah, I understand that... I'm just saying fundamentally- keep the
aircraft in best glide speed (dependent on configuration) from the
moment the engine cuts until the moment you flare, and you won't worry
about the 'do I push this glide to make the runway' trap.

On Nov 15, 12:44 pm, Jose wrote:
Fly Vg from the moment the engine
cuts to the moment you begin your
round-out... land wherever that puts you.You can do better if you consider the wind. Fly faster than Vg into the
wind, slower than Vg with the wind, and you will increase your range
(and likelihood of reaching something hospitable).

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.