Taking newbies flying...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Have I got this right? You are not a flight instructor. (If you are,
please correct me.) Despite this, you hand over the controls to a
stranger. To a stranger nonetheless who sits the first time in his life in
a small plane. And you don't just hand over the controls at altitude
(which admittedly I have done myself), but right on the ground and you let
him fly the take off. Then you let him fly a 180 at low altitude. And all
this *with a passenger in the back*!

Yes, you screwed up royally. But for a different reason than you think.

Stefan

As Shakespeare said, "Much ado about nothing".

There was nothing "wrong" or dangerous in what Dan did Stefan. Pilots do
this all the time, and few of them are instructors. In fact, the first time
I went up for a ride, (AT-6G) I did what could be stretched into (if I was
REALLY stretching that is :-) a reasonable facsimile of a decent slow roll.
Pilots each have to exercise responsibility if and when they hand over the
controls to a passenger as to where and when during the flight this
"changeover" takes place. A pilot letting the front seat pax handle the
controls for a while with the airplane at altitude in cruise poses no
particular threat to anyone. What's REALLY important is that the pilot in
command of the flight not allow ANYTHING to occur during that flight that
either frightens the people flying with that pilot, or endangers the flight
in any way.
Hell, half the pilots I know who aren't instructors can't wait to let people
fly their airplanes during a flight. That single thing has probably been
responsible for more people learning to fly than anything else I can
remember :-)
Dudley Henriques

Here are couple of pics of my daughter flying the Archer last summer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/weaver1...7594074697690/

I did the takeoff, but she flew the climbout and pretty much all the
way from Bozeman to Great Falls. She's flown with me since she was four
years old. Doesn't yet want to spend the time and commitment it takes
to get her ticket, but I'm comfortable with her flying the airplane.

She does a good job. She could probably handle the takeoff too, if I
let her.

On our day into Great Falls she flew the airplane all the way to short
final, airspeed pegged at 70 knots. She also handled the radios, which
is a story in itself.

I told her to tell Great Falls Approach (a TRSA, actually) that we were
inbound from the south, over the Smith River, with Romeo. She looked at
me kind of funny, then keyed the mike and told the controller, "Uh,
Great Falls, Archer three-niner-mike is 9 south, over the Smith River,
and we have Rambo on board".

Then she gave me this look like, "Why did you make me say that??".

There was a short pause, then the controller came back: "Roger, you
have Rambo on board. Do you have an instructor with you too?".

My daughter: "No, but my dad's with me".

Controller: "Good. Continue".

It was a fun flight.

We've had lots of other flights like that. Lots of fun.

--Walt


Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Have I got this right? You are not a flight instructor. (If you are,
please correct me.) Despite this, you hand over the controls to a
stranger. To a stranger nonetheless who sits the first time in his life in
a small plane. And you don't just hand over the controls at altitude
(which admittedly I have done myself), but right on the ground and you let
him fly the take off. Then you let him fly a 180 at low altitude. And all
this *with a passenger in the back*!

Yes, you screwed up royally. But for a different reason than you think.

Stefan

As Shakespeare said, "Much ado about nothing".

There was nothing "wrong" or dangerous in what Dan did Stefan. Pilots do
this all the time, and few of them are instructors. In fact, the first time
I went up for a ride, (AT-6G) I did what could be stretched into (if I was
REALLY stretching that is :-) a reasonable facsimile of a decent slow roll.
Pilots each have to exercise responsibility if and when they hand over the
controls to a passenger as to where and when during the flight this
"changeover" takes place. A pilot letting the front seat pax handle the
controls for a while with the airplane at altitude in cruise poses no
particular threat to anyone. What's REALLY important is that the pilot in
command of the flight not allow ANYTHING to occur during that flight that
either frightens the people flying with that pilot, or endangers the flight
in any way.
Hell, half the pilots I know who aren't instructors can't wait to let people
fly their airplanes during a flight. That single thing has probably been
responsible for more people learning to fly than anything else I can
remember :-)
Dudley Henriques

Looks like a beautiful young lady you have there Walt.
This was pretty much how I started too. A few rides with my father abd his
friends, then practically raised by an Air National Guard fighter squadron,
and the rest is history.....well, a good story anyway :-)))
Tell her I said "hi" and to keep at it! :-)
Dudley Henriques


"Walt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here are couple of pics of my daughter flying the Archer last summer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/weaver1...7594074697690/

I did the takeoff, but she flew the climbout and pretty much all the
way from Bozeman to Great Falls. She's flown with me since she was four
years old. Doesn't yet want to spend the time and commitment it takes
to get her ticket, but I'm comfortable with her flying the airplane.

She does a good job. She could probably handle the takeoff too, if I
let her.

On our day into Great Falls she flew the airplane all the way to short
final, airspeed pegged at 70 knots. She also handled the radios, which
is a story in itself.

I told her to tell Great Falls Approach (a TRSA, actually) that we were
inbound from the south, over the Smith River, with Romeo. She looked at
me kind of funny, then keyed the mike and told the controller, "Uh,
Great Falls, Archer three-niner-mike is 9 south, over the Smith River,
and we have Rambo on board".

Then she gave me this look like, "Why did you make me say that??".

There was a short pause, then the controller came back: "Roger, you
have Rambo on board. Do you have an instructor with you too?".

My daughter: "No, but my dad's with me".

Controller: "Good. Continue".

It was a fun flight.

We've had lots of other flights like that. Lots of fun.

--Walt


Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Have I got this right? You are not a flight instructor. (If you are,
please correct me.) Despite this, you hand over the controls to a
stranger. To a stranger nonetheless who sits the first time in his life
in
a small plane. And you don't just hand over the controls at altitude
(which admittedly I have done myself), but right on the ground and you
let
him fly the take off. Then you let him fly a 180 at low altitude. And
all
this *with a passenger in the back*!

Yes, you screwed up royally. But for a different reason than you think.

Stefan

As Shakespeare said, "Much ado about nothing".

There was nothing "wrong" or dangerous in what Dan did Stefan. Pilots do
this all the time, and few of them are instructors. In fact, the first
time
I went up for a ride, (AT-6G) I did what could be stretched into (if I
was
REALLY stretching that is :-) a reasonable facsimile of a decent slow
roll.
Pilots each have to exercise responsibility if and when they hand over
the
controls to a passenger as to where and when during the flight this
"changeover" takes place. A pilot letting the front seat pax handle the
controls for a while with the airplane at altitude in cruise poses no
particular threat to anyone. What's REALLY important is that the pilot in
command of the flight not allow ANYTHING to occur during that flight that
either frightens the people flying with that pilot, or endangers the
flight
in any way.
Hell, half the pilots I know who aren't instructors can't wait to let
people
fly their airplanes during a flight. That single thing has probably been
responsible for more people learning to fly than anything else I can
remember :-)
Dudley Henriques

Thanks Dudley, I'll tell her you said hi. She's a good kid.

--Walt


Dudley Henriques wrote:
Looks like a beautiful young lady you have there Walt.
This was pretty much how I started too. A few rides with my father abd his
friends, then practically raised by an Air National Guard fighter squadron,
and the rest is history.....well, a good story anyway :-)))
Tell her I said "hi" and to keep at it! :-)
Dudley Henriques


"Walt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here are couple of pics of my daughter flying the Archer last summer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/weaver1...7594074697690/

I did the takeoff, but she flew the climbout and pretty much all the
way from Bozeman to Great Falls. She's flown with me since she was four
years old. Doesn't yet want to spend the time and commitment it takes
to get her ticket, but I'm comfortable with her flying the airplane.

She does a good job. She could probably handle the takeoff too, if I
let her.

On our day into Great Falls she flew the airplane all the way to short
final, airspeed pegged at 70 knots. She also handled the radios, which
is a story in itself.

I told her to tell Great Falls Approach (a TRSA, actually) that we were
inbound from the south, over the Smith River, with Romeo. She looked at
me kind of funny, then keyed the mike and told the controller, "Uh,
Great Falls, Archer three-niner-mike is 9 south, over the Smith River,
and we have Rambo on board".

Then she gave me this look like, "Why did you make me say that??".

There was a short pause, then the controller came back: "Roger, you
have Rambo on board. Do you have an instructor with you too?".

My daughter: "No, but my dad's with me".

Controller: "Good. Continue".

It was a fun flight.

We've had lots of other flights like that. Lots of fun.

--Walt


Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Have I got this right? You are not a flight instructor. (If you are,
please correct me.) Despite this, you hand over the controls to a
stranger. To a stranger nonetheless who sits the first time in his life
in
a small plane. And you don't just hand over the controls at altitude
(which admittedly I have done myself), but right on the ground and you
let
him fly the take off. Then you let him fly a 180 at low altitude. And
all
this *with a passenger in the back*!

Yes, you screwed up royally. But for a different reason than you think.

Stefan

As Shakespeare said, "Much ado about nothing".

There was nothing "wrong" or dangerous in what Dan did Stefan. Pilots do
this all the time, and few of them are instructors. In fact, the first
time
I went up for a ride, (AT-6G) I did what could be stretched into (if I
was
REALLY stretching that is :-) a reasonable facsimile of a decent slow
roll.
Pilots each have to exercise responsibility if and when they hand over
the
controls to a passenger as to where and when during the flight this
"changeover" takes place. A pilot letting the front seat pax handle the
controls for a while with the airplane at altitude in cruise poses no
particular threat to anyone. What's REALLY important is that the pilot in
command of the flight not allow ANYTHING to occur during that flight that
either frightens the people flying with that pilot, or endangers the
flight
in any way.
Hell, half the pilots I know who aren't instructors can't wait to let
people
fly their airplanes during a flight. That single thing has probably been
responsible for more people learning to fly than anything else I can
remember :-)
Dudley Henriques

Walt,

Great pics...

I sure wish I'd had someone to take me flying at that age...how great for
you both!

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:49:12 -0700, Jay Beckman wrote:

I sure wish I'd had someone to take me flying at that age...how great for
you both!

My wife, my 4 year-old son and I feel fortunate that we can share aviation
with him. We're all lucky!

And we've a 1 year old who is already zooming toy airplanes around the
house, getting ready for his first ride (I need to remember to start him
on the headset indoctrination program I invented for his older brother).

But I was at a party a couple of nights ago where there happened to be a
pair of lapsed pilots. One has kids! So sad, the opportunity being
wasted.

- Andrew

Dudley Henriques wrote:
There was nothing "wrong" or dangerous in what Dan did Stefan. Pilots do
this all the time, and few of them are instructors. In fact, the first time
I went up for a ride, (AT-6G) I did what could be stretched into (if I was
REALLY stretching that is :-) a reasonable facsimile of a decent slow roll.


My first time at the controls was with a Navy recruiter in a T-34B after I took
the NFO test and scored reasonably well. We took off after a safety briefing
that left me with the impression that if anything went wrong, well, it'd been a
good life. I mean, the pilot was going to get out OK but I sure as hell wasn't
going to remember a word of what he told me.

That being done, we took off and the fellow showed me what an airplane could do.
It went up and down (we looped) and it went around (we rolled). So far so
good... he probably did several other things but all I really remember was this
was the first time I'd ever experienced G in an airplane. I didn't disgrace
either myself or my ancestors by redecorating the cockpit.

Then the fellow let me take the controls. We went up and down (gingerly) and
turned left and right (gingerly). Now that we were straight and level (more or
less) I began to get a little green around the gills.

I was never so glad to get down on the ground. Of course, I claimed the ride
was the greatest experience of my life as I wiped the sweat from my brow and
swallowed frequently. But I didn't disgrace myself.

Here it is some 30 years later and the only time I've ever gotten nauseated in
an airplane since was riding in the back of an Arrow while somebody else flew
it. But I've never puked. There's a few times I almost **** my pants but
that's a different story.

Now, with newbies, I give my best airline ride. I figure any fool can jerk an
airplane around but it takes talent to be smooth. But I don't explain
everything in advance... I just do what needs to be done and answer questions as
they come up. I haven't lost a passenger yet or had anybody refuse to ride with
me a second time.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:57:37 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

hen the fellow let me take the controls. We went up and down (gingerly)
and turned left and right (gingerly). Now that we were straight and level
(more or less) I began to get a little green around the gills.

That's pretty odd. One sure-fire cure for nausea I've found is to have
the ill passenger take the controls. The only time it didn't work is
when the passenger in question refused.

This is the first time I've heard of someone feeling ill from taking the
controls.

Any idea why?

- Andrew

On 12/13/06 12:26, Andrew Gideon wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 22:57:37 -0500, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

hen the fellow let me take the controls. We went up and down (gingerly)
and turned left and right (gingerly). Now that we were straight and level
(more or less) I began to get a little green around the gills.

That's pretty odd. One sure-fire cure for nausea I've found is to have
the ill passenger take the controls. The only time it didn't work is
when the passenger in question refused.

This is the first time I've heard of someone feeling ill from taking the
controls.

Any idea why?

- Andrew


When I was first practicing maneuvers (especially steep turns), I would
get really airsick - I remember asking my instructor to leave that practice
for the end of the flight, so I could get on the ground quickly after we
finished them. - I was at the controls the entire time.

I did get over it, though, but it took a while.



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Andrew Gideon wrote:
hen the fellow let me take the controls. We went up and down (gingerly)
and turned left and right (gingerly). Now that we were straight and level
(more or less) I began to get a little green around the gills.

That's pretty odd. One sure-fire cure for nausea I've found is to have
the ill passenger take the controls. The only time it didn't work is
when the passenger in question refused.

This is the first time I've heard of someone feeling ill from taking the
controls.

Any idea why?


I don't think it had anything to do with me taking the controls. I think it was
the end of the aerobatics (and the adrenalin rush) that caused it. I have a
mental image of fluid swishing around the semicircular canals in my inner ear
during the aerobatics, but at least it agreed with what was happening. Then we
were straight and level, but the fluid was still swishing around. The
incongruity caused the nausea.

At least that's my theory. It may just be so much crap.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com