Low fuel emergency in DFW

moving the other traffic is not simple when in the DFW area.
It takes time because you have to talk to each airplane and
have a place for it to go.

There will likely be an NTSB and or FAA report after an
investigation, into causes, remedies are determined. I'll
wait for that. But if the goal is to get on the ground
ASAP, consider the airplane declaring the emergency did land
safely. If a longer delay was needed to clear the airspace,
it might not have.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| It takes less time to fit the Tulsa to DFW flight into
the
| flow of traffic than it does to turn 12-30 airplanes out
of
| the way to turn the airport around. DFW, unlike many
| smaller airports never has a slack time, there are
always
| long sequenced flights.
| Departing Tulsa, by jet, to DFW is not a long
flight...why
| did they have a "fuel emergency," did they depart
without
| fuel, did they have a leak?
|
|
| They didn't know how the situation developed, they
mentioned a leak as a
| possibility.
|
|
|
| If the flight had insisted on landing 17, then it could
| easily have taken 30 minutes to get them a clear shot at
the
| runway.
|
|
| No it wouldn't. You simply move the other traffic.
|
|
|
| BTW, I have NEVER seen an accurate report on TV or in a
| newspaper of any airline accident or incident. NEVER!
|
|
| The tapes were part of the report. ATC was wrong, no
question about it.
|
|

Sure, and ATC can make those other airplane instantly become
ghosts, not take any volume or be physically manifest in the
air.
ATC can simply broadcast a command, "ALL aircraft, there is
an emergency in progress at DFW, all aircraft fly away,
maintain VFR and good luck!"


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| Not if that would take longer than what the controller
can
| do, which is to fit the plane into the sequence.
|
|
| Wrong. The emergency aircraft instantly becomes number
one for his
| requested runway. Any aircraft that might delay it's
arrival is moved or
| held.
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

moving the other traffic is not simple when in the DFW area.
It takes time because you have to talk to each airplane and
have a place for it to go.


It's easier than you think.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

Sure, and ATC can make those other airplane instantly become
ghosts, not take any volume or be physically manifest in the
air.
ATC can simply broadcast a command, "ALL aircraft, there is
an emergency in progress at DFW, all aircraft fly away,
maintain VFR and good luck!"


You've seen too many bad aviation movies.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Jim Macklin" wrote

How many "outraged" posters have ever flown into DFW as a
pilot? For ATC to turn the airport around takes about half
an hour, even if all they do is tell all the other airplanes
to go away. ATC did fit the "emergency" into the traffic,
which seems to be the better solution.

It would not have a been a "better solution" if he had run out of fuel
while maneuvering, and killed a few hundred people.

Deciding that an emergency is not all that urgent is not the controller's
right. He should have given the clearance requested, then later the
situation should be toughly investigated and the pilot reamed, if it was
not a true emergency, or if it was, then perhaps a different kind of
reaming.

"Might I suggest a closer airport?" seems to sum it up.

If it were strictly a fuel emergency, diverting to take on fuel would solve
the problem completely without upsetting the whole sector. The real issue
was one pilot willing to maintain his route and schedule at the expense of
everyone else in the air, including those onboard his own plane. If there's
justice in this world, bury him in paperwork for the duration of his
administrative leave. After a humbly apologetic ASRS, write 100,000,000
times longhand "I will place the safety of others above my own convenience."
We learn and grow from our mistakes. His was such that he should reach 8 ft.
tall by summer.

Frankly, I'm dismayed and more than a little frightened by the shrill tone
that has become common on news broadcasts in the past few years, and the
unthinking echo emanating from the skulls they seem to penetrate so easily.

And you don't seem to understand that what I said was
sarcasm. You are the one that said it was simple to clear
all the other airplanes out of the way. It just isn't
possible in less than a certain amount of time, yet you can
clear one airplane out of line and fit the airplane with the
emergency in line.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
nk.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| Sure, and ATC can make those other airplane instantly
become
| ghosts, not take any volume or be physically manifest in
the
| air.
| ATC can simply broadcast a command, "ALL aircraft, there
is
| an emergency in progress at DFW, all aircraft fly away,
| maintain VFR and good luck!"
|
|
| You've seen too many bad aviation movies.
|
|

Really, at DFW, easier than just fitting one airplane into
the stream and moving one airplane out, easier in your mind
to turn 10,20, 30 airplanes around?



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
message
k.net...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
|
| moving the other traffic is not simple when in the DFW
area.
| It takes time because you have to talk to each airplane
and
| have a place for it to go.
|
|
| It's easier than you think.
|
|

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Not as Arrogant as Mxsmanic writes:

Yeah, the FARs are really important when you're out of gas.

Yes, legally they are very important indeed, because they give a pilot in
an
emergency full authority to do anything he considers necessary for safety,
which means that ATC has nothing to say in the matter. A pilot who
declares
an emergency and ignores ATC is fully covered legally, as long as he was
maintaining the safety of the flight. Indeed, he doesn't even have to
declare
an emergency for that, but it's administratively easier if he does.

--

So if the pilot chose to land on R17 and crashed into a fully laden 747
that couldnt be moved in time, and 600 people died, are you saying the pilot
was in his rights to ignore ATC telling him not to land? ATC have to take
into account the safety of all aircraft in their control, and if they had to
balance the risk of one aircraft versus another , surely they have to err in
favour of the aircraft who has done nothing wrong. The pilot has a duty of
care to other people apart from his own aircraft and pax.
terry

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

And you don't seem to understand that what I said was
sarcasm. You are the one that said it was simple to clear
all the other airplanes out of the way. It just isn't
possible in less than a certain amount of time, yet you can
clear one airplane out of line and fit the airplane with the
emergency in line.


Is anything possible in less than a certain amount of time? What I said
was correct.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...

Really, at DFW, easier than just fitting one airplane into
the stream and moving one airplane out, easier in your mind
to turn 10,20, 30 airplanes around?


What is easier for ATC is not an issue. When a pilot declares an emergency
you give him whatever he wants.