Do you have to solo to get current?

"Skidder" wrote in
:

I appreciate your input Jim, but the regs don't say that. It says you
have to be current to carry a passenger. It does not say you have to be
current to carry another pilot seeking currency, or that anyone in an
aircraft that requires only one pilot, has to be considered a passenger.

Actually, the regs (61.57) prohibit a pilot from acting as THE PILOT IN
COMMAND of a flight if he has not, as sole manipulator of the flight
controls, performed 3 takeoffs and landings within the preceding 90 days.

Furthermore, according to section (2), if he is out of currency, he may act
as THE PIC of a flight under day VFR or IFR, *** provided no persons or
property are carried on board the aircraft, other than those necessary for
the conduct of the flight. ***

In what way is pilot #2 necessary for the conduct of the flight?

http://tinyurl.com/2n5epj

For further clarification, the PILOT IN COMMAND of an aircraft is defined
in 91.3

"(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and
is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft."

There can only be 1 final authority. There is only one Pilot in Command of
the aircraft, even if there are 100 other pilots in the plane.

http://tinyurl.com/2v9266

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
If you're not current to carry a passenger and the aircraft
does not require two pilots, then one of the pilots onboard
must be current to have a legal flight. That pilot must be
PIC and does not have to be a CFI.
The pilot getting current must make the required TO&L and
can log that time as PIC.

Once three TO&L have been done [and logged] the pilot is
current to carry passengers. The CFI can log the landings
for his/her currency w/o ever touching the controls and w/o
a medical. But as I understand it, unless the "passenger"
is a CFI, legal to be PIC with a medical, the sole
manipulator PIC must be fully current. Or in a LSA.



Huh? Your first paragraph says that the non-flying pilot doesn't have to be
CFI. Your second paragraph says that the non-flying pilot does (I think).
Maybe that was two options - either the non-flying pilot is a CFI or is a
non-CFI current to be PIC.

The discussion was about two non-current pilots going up together. I agree
that doesn't work. But, a non-current pilot could go up with a current pilot
(not CFI) and, as sole manipulator of the controls become current.

To be clear: non-current pilot A and current pilot B (not CFI). Pilot A
pre-flights, climbs in the left seat. Pilot B gets in the right seat. Pilot
A starts, taxiis, takes off, flys the pattern three times, taxiis back in.
Pilot B never touched the controls but was legal PIC for practically the
whole flight and logs it as such. Pilot A could not be PIC (i.e. a
passenger) until the third landing. Pilot A cannot log PIC even though he
was sole manipulator because he was not current to carry passengers until
after the third landing.

-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

"Travis Marlatte" wrote in
t:

[snip] unless
one of them is a CFI in which case they get blamed for everything even
if they are in the back seat. (that's a bad joke that has seen the light
of day)

Unless the pilot in the left seat is a professional ball player, in which
case the CFI doesn't get blamed but the propeller manufacturer does.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:10:05 -0800, Skidder wrote
(in article ):

As we all know, you can't carry a passenger unless you are current. But if
two pilots get in an aircraft with dual controls, can either of them really
be considered a passenger? You can log PIC from either seat.

Actually, what the regs say is that you cannot act as PIC in an airplane
carrying passengers if you have not made the three takeoffs and landings
and/or your medical is not current. Whether you log PIC is another matter
entirely, having almost nothing to do with acting as PIC. Instructors giving
instruction, for example, always log PIC even if they are not allowed to act
as PIC.

The regs also say that anyone who is not a required crewmember is a
passenger.

So, unless you both are required crewmembers, the pilot who is not acting PIC
is a passenger. A safety pilot on an instrument training flight would be a
required crewmember. An instructor giving instruction would be a required
crewmember.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Judah wrote
What role is pilot #2 playing when pilot #1 is flying the plane? Is he
a required crew member? Is he manipulating the controls?

If pilot #2 were sitting in the back seat instead of the front seat
during the flight would his role as passenger be any more or less
clear?

I think the answers are pretty cut and dry, and your attorney friend
is just trying to play loophole games with the regs because that's
what attorneys do, and it's convenient for him.

I frequently fly with my neighbor/aircraft owner/Private Pilot in his
Cessna 172.
I almost always occupy the front/right seat when either he or another
Private Pilot friend is flying the airplane (a/c owner in back seat).
I am very relieved to hear that (by your reasoning), I am just a
"passenger" and that my Flight Instructor Certificate and ATP will not
come under FAA scrutiny if one of the others bends the airplane or
violates a regulation.

HEY!! I'm not a crewmember....just a passenger. :-)

Bob Moore

C J Campbell wrote
The regs also say that anyone who is not a required crewmember is a
passenger.

Not true JC.


From FAR Part 1

Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft
during flight time. "required or not" my comment.

Flightcrew member means a pilot, flight engineer, or flight navigator
assigned to duty in an aircraft during flight time.


The following is an interesting disseration:

http://www.aircareaccess.com/FAValue101.pdf

Bob Moore
CFII ATP

That means that you have to stop the aircraft after
landing. You can then take off immediately after that. This is known
as a "Stop and go".

Do consider runway remaining when deciding to do it that way.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I have a few questions/comments myself of Skidder ...

1. Are you msxmaniac in drag?

2. We don't call people who sit in the left front seat "flyers". Nobody
from the greenest student up calls them that.

3. were we're

4. Dual controls do NOT imply full control of the aircraft. One person or
the other has full control, and we call that person Pilot In Command. The
other person is called a passenger. I could be flying with Hoover or
Yeager, and if it is MY plane and I'M the PIC, they are passengers.

5. People in this NG that have more hours flying and instructing in aircraft
than you have in bed have given you a correct answer that you apparently are
unwilling to accept. Deal with it.

6. Nothing in the regs is clear. They were written by lawyers specifically
so that they could be "bent" to fit the occasion as suits the FAA. Deal
with it. The scenario that you present, however, is crystal clear.

Jim



"Skidder" wrote in message
...
On 3/7/2007 7:10:07 PM, "Skidder" wrote:


Ok, first things first, I am not a troll, and this is a very legitimate
question that could be applicable to lots of flyers.

Second, were all over the place here. MEIs, seaplanes, instructor without
medicals, you can't be PIC unless you are current (who's pic when you do
your
currency work), ......sheesh guys let's keep our eyes on the ball.

You have two pilots, dual controls, both have full control of the
aircraft.
To simplify more, let's say they both have current medicals, and have
logged
at least 100 hours in this specific aircraft in the past. It's just been
95
days since each have flown.

What in the regs states that, a pilot with a full set of controls in front
of
him, must be considered a passenger, just because someone else is flying
the
plane.

It's a fair question, and I can't find a clear answer in the regs. But I'm
not a book worm either. I was just hoping there was enough experience
*with
the regs* somewhere in this group, to locate a definitive answer.


--
Skidder

And the reg goes on to state "... REQUIRED crewmember". Unless the TC for
the aircraft requires two pilots, the person handing you the charts is a
crewmember who happens to be a passenger, not a REQUIRED crewmember.

Jim


Crewmember: "person assigned to perform a duty during flightime"

Then screw it, top post. Just because somebody asks you to do something is
no reason for you to do it if you don't want to.

Jim



"BT" wrote in message
...

I hate bottom posting... but..