Did I miss the Era of GA?

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:47:01 GMT, "Google Madness"
wrote in p7cKh.3341$I56.128@trnddc06:

Twenty years ago I almost got into flying, I'd even taken my Discovery
Flight and was all set to dive in. Then my wife-to-be put the kabosh on it
saying it was too much money.
Now money isn't so much an issue anymore and I'm all set once again to
follow my dream of having my PPL.
But, I've heard so many depressing things about the state of ( and future
of ) GA I'm wondering if the era of GA has passed me by.

Here's one article, like many others that I've read, that expresses many of
the issues that sounds so dismal for GA. I'm now seriously considering
scrapping the idea of a PPL once again but I'd like to hear from some people
out there if the situation is not really as bad as this sounds.

http://www.megginson.com/blogs/lahso...eral-aviation/

Thanks



While I can understand your desire to get some feedback from those
currently enjoying the joy of flight before committing the not
insubstantial time and resources required to obtain your airmans
certificate, if you would let their input, or indeed that of your
wife, stand in the path to your dream, you may not have the requisite
'fire in your belly' to make a good airman. The path to an airmans
certificate is expensive, and donning the responsibilities of becoming
a 'pilot in command' is, or should be, a life-changing event.

Becoming a responsible airman is not really at all akin to becoming a
licensed motorist. And it's not possible to be a dilettante airman;
it requires constant exercise of your right to fly, almost weekly, so
it's a good thing you can now financially afford it; hopefully you
have a burning interest and the requisite empty spot in your life
waiting to be filled with flying activity. But remember, your flight
decisions will affect the lives of you and your passengers, and those
over whom you fly, as well as us, the pilot community.

You will have to MASTER several disciplines to achieve the status of
pilot. You will not only need the motor skills necessary to control
the aircraft, you'll need to acquire mastery of the fundamentals of
meteorology to read mother nature's ever churning skies, mastery
pilotage, dead reckoning and several types of radio navigation,
mastery of voluminous aviation regulation details, mastery of radio
communication techniques and operation, mastery of a myriad of
aircraft systems, how to effectively employ cockpit resource
management, and most importantly, you'll need to learn how to be a
CAPTAIN capable of abandoning your pride when safety demands that you
make a socially unpopular decision and sticking to it in the face of
what will feel like overwhelming social pressure.

In addition, you'll need reasonably good health over the entire time
you exercise your right to ply the skies. Indeed, it is this last
factor that is the sole limiting factor in the use of your airmans
certificate; it doesn't expire periodically like a driver's license.
But you will have to demonstrate your flight skills every two years.

So while the cost of gasoline is rising daily, and security issues can
be frustrating to some extent, unlike the days of 1987, it is your
openness to changing your mental attitude toward flight and the
responsibilities of being a pilot in command, as well as your
commitment of time and money to constant on-going practice of your
flight skills that are the true barriers to becoming an airman and
continuing to fly through the subsequent years.

If you have what it takes, do it. If you lack TOTAL commitment, don't
waste your time.

Larry Dighera writes:

While I can understand your desire to get some feedback from those
currently enjoying the joy of flight before committing the not
insubstantial time and resources required to obtain your airmans
certificate, if you would let their input, or indeed that of your
wife, stand in the path to your dream, you may not have the requisite
'fire in your belly' to make a good airman.

Why must one have "fire in the belly" in order to be entitled to fly? Is it a
hazing ritual, or is it a hobby?

There may be some justification for certain qualifications to be required when
one is doing something that directly affects others, such as flying a
commercial airliner. It's difficult to see any justification for this when
one is doing something as a hobby that affects essentially no one else.

Suggesting that someone needs arbitrary qualifications or must overcome
arbitrary hurdles in the latter case is simple elitism.

The path to an airmans
certificate is expensive, and donning the responsibilities of becoming
a 'pilot in command' is, or should be, a life-changing event.

What responsibilities? If you are flying on your own, they are practically
nil, not any greater than riding your own motorcycle.

Becoming a responsible airman is not really at all akin to becoming a
licensed motorist.

Sure it is, fundamentally. But many artificial barriers exist in order to
ensure that only certain people are allowed to join the club. A lot of
aviators do _not_ want other people to fly, as this would lessen the ego trip
they get themselves out of flying. The idea of anyone being able to do it
bothers them. And just about anyone _could_ do it, if the artificial barriers
were removed. It's not that difficult.

And it's not possible to be a dilettante airman; it requires constant
exercise of your right to fly, almost weekly ...

See above. More of the treehouse-club effect.

You will have to MASTER several disciplines to achieve the status of
pilot.

No, you won't. All you have to do is pass the tests. If pilots _mastered_
the skills that are supposedly represented by the tests, they would have no
accidents due to pilot error.

You will not only need the motor skills necessary to control
the aircraft ...

Which anyone who can ride a bicycle or roller-skate already has.

... you'll need to acquire mastery of the fundamentals of
meteorology to read mother nature's ever churning skies ...

Fundamentals is an overstatement. I'm sure many meteorologists would agree.
And many pilots barely manage that, as accidents regularly prove.

mastery pilotage, dead reckoning and several types of radio navigation,
mastery of voluminous aviation regulation details, mastery of radio
communication techniques and operation, mastery of a myriad of
aircraft systems, how to effectively employ cockpit resource
management, and most importantly, you'll need to learn how to be a
CAPTAIN capable of abandoning your pride when safety demands that you
make a socially unpopular decision and sticking to it in the face of
what will feel like overwhelming social pressure.

Pride seems to be the predominant characteristic under discussion here.

Maybe some people should become doctors instead of pilots. From the way you
write about it, becoming a doctor sounds a lot easier.

In addition, you'll need reasonably good health over the entire time
you exercise your right to ply the skies.

More like robust health (far in excess of what would actually be required to
fly), thanks to archaic rules and more of the treehouse-club mentality.

If you have what it takes, do it. If you lack TOTAL commitment, don't
waste your time.

In other words, if someone isn't as fanatic as you think they should be, you
want them to stay out of the club.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Larry Dighera writes:


While I can understand your desire to get some feedback from those
currently enjoying the joy of flight before committing the not
insubstantial time and resources required to obtain your airmans
certificate, if you would let their input, or indeed that of your
wife, stand in the path to your dream, you may not have the requisite
'fire in your belly' to make a good airman.


Why must one have "fire in the belly" in order to be entitled to fly? Is it a
hazing ritual, or is it a hobby?

There may be some justification for certain qualifications to be required when
one is doing something that directly affects others, such as flying a
commercial airliner. It's difficult to see any justification for this when
one is doing something as a hobby that affects essentially no one else.

Suggesting that someone needs arbitrary qualifications or must overcome
arbitrary hurdles in the latter case is simple elitism.


The path to an airmans
certificate is expensive, and donning the responsibilities of becoming
a 'pilot in command' is, or should be, a life-changing event.


What responsibilities? If you are flying on your own, they are practically
nil, not any greater than riding your own motorcycle.


Becoming a responsible airman is not really at all akin to becoming a
licensed motorist.


Sure it is, fundamentally. But many artificial barriers exist in order to
ensure that only certain people are allowed to join the club. A lot of
aviators do _not_ want other people to fly, as this would lessen the ego trip
they get themselves out of flying. The idea of anyone being able to do it
bothers them. And just about anyone _could_ do it, if the artificial barriers
were removed. It's not that difficult.


And it's not possible to be a dilettante airman; it requires constant
exercise of your right to fly, almost weekly ...


See above. More of the treehouse-club effect.


You will have to MASTER several disciplines to achieve the status of
pilot.


No, you won't. All you have to do is pass the tests. If pilots _mastered_
the skills that are supposedly represented by the tests, they would have no
accidents due to pilot error.


You will not only need the motor skills necessary to control
the aircraft ...


Which anyone who can ride a bicycle or roller-skate already has.


... you'll need to acquire mastery of the fundamentals of
meteorology to read mother nature's ever churning skies ...


Fundamentals is an overstatement. I'm sure many meteorologists would agree.
And many pilots barely manage that, as accidents regularly prove.


mastery pilotage, dead reckoning and several types of radio navigation,
mastery of voluminous aviation regulation details, mastery of radio
communication techniques and operation, mastery of a myriad of
aircraft systems, how to effectively employ cockpit resource
management, and most importantly, you'll need to learn how to be a
CAPTAIN capable of abandoning your pride when safety demands that you
make a socially unpopular decision and sticking to it in the face of
what will feel like overwhelming social pressure.


Pride seems to be the predominant characteristic under discussion here.

Maybe some people should become doctors instead of pilots. From the way you
write about it, becoming a doctor sounds a lot easier.


In addition, you'll need reasonably good health over the entire time
you exercise your right to ply the skies.


More like robust health (far in excess of what would actually be required to
fly), thanks to archaic rules and more of the treehouse-club mentality.


If you have what it takes, do it. If you lack TOTAL commitment, don't
waste your time.


In other words, if someone isn't as fanatic as you think they should be, you
want them to stay out of the club.



There may be some in the community who feel more special because they
fly, but that is not the norm. If so, it is not unique to pilots.
However, that has not been my experience. I think your view is skewed
because you feel ostracized by those whom you belittle and whom you
think you are better than because yo have 10000 hours in barons and 747s
and they have just a few hundred hours in old cessnas with old analog
radio tuners and no autopilots...

What would you say to someone who said he knew Paris better than most
Parisians, yet had never been there. THis person watched videos of the
Eifel tower, read about the Louvre, ate french bread from the local
bakery from his local town in the USA. He/she also had "conversations"
in french with his computer language tutor program. He/she even took
lessons in how to surrender and hold his/her hands up so he/she would be
more French. Does that help you see how your claims are viewed by
pilots? Perhaps not.

Getting a certificate in the US is a challenge and if that is the goal
it should be understood that it will take a lot of motivation. There
are many factors that inhibit achieving the goal - outside of money and
skill/learning. Contrary to what you might think it is not a bunch of
hazing rituals or secret handshakes. The process of taking lessons,
dealing with cancelations due to weather, instructors, maintenance,
shceduling, etc wears one down and makes getting a pilot certificate
more an acheivement of persistence than one of skill or talent or
learning. It is not hard to fly. Most people can learn to do it.

Most people though have false notions that it is overly complicated, too
expensive or something that is too dangerous.

I've never met a pilot who wasn't thrilled to meet other pilots or who
disuaded others about learning to fly. On the contrary - all the
members of this "elitist club" (that you like to call it) usually go out
of their way to introduce others to the joy and fun of flying and will
mentor, give free flights, teach, talk about it or do anything else to
promote this passion of theirs.

Tim writes:

There may be some in the community who feel more special because they
fly, but that is not the norm.

Perhaps the abnormal ones are strangely attracted ot USENET, then.

Actually, however, the USENET syndrome is not unique to pilots. It's much
more closely associated with IQ than occupation.

However, that has not been my experience. I think your view is skewed
because you feel ostracized by those whom you belittle and whom you
think you are better than because yo have 10000 hours in barons and 747s
and they have just a few hundred hours in old cessnas with old analog
radio tuners and no autopilots...

It makes no difference to me; I'm a veteran of USENET, and the chattering of a
few parrots causes me no stress.

What would you say to someone who said he knew Paris better than most
Parisians, yet had never been there.

I'd find it hard to believe based on the assertion alone, but it's certainly
possible that he might be right.

THis person watched videos of the Eifel tower, read about the Louvre,
ate french bread from the local bakery from his local town in the USA.
He/she also had "conversations" in french with his computer language
tutor program.

All of those would certain improve his knowledge of Paris, and there are
Parisians who would already know less than he if he were to do that.

He/she even took lessons in how to surrender and hold his/her hands
up so he/she would be more French.

I don't see the connection.

It is not hard to fly. Most people can learn to do it.

Agreed. The obstacles actually have nothing to do with flying per se.

Most people though have false notions that it is overly complicated, too
expensive or something that is too dangerous.

It is indeed very expensive, very time-consuming, and involves a tremendous
amount of red tape and many odd conditions. These are the many reasons why
there are not more pilots.

I've never met a pilot who wasn't thrilled to meet other pilots or who
disuaded others about learning to fly. On the contrary - all the
members of this "elitist club" (that you like to call it) usually go out
of their way to introduce others to the joy and fun of flying and will
mentor, give free flights, teach, talk about it or do anything else to
promote this passion of theirs.

Not so. They dislike simulation.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
He/she even took lessons in how to surrender and hold his/her hands
up so he/she would be more French.


I don't see the connection.

I guess your humor skills are lacking.




Most people though have false notions that it is overly complicated, too
expensive or something that is too dangerous.


It is indeed very expensive, very time-consuming, and involves a tremendous
amount of red tape and many odd conditions. These are the many reasons why
there are not more pilots.

It is no more expensive that other hobbies or activities. It takes
about 70 hours of flight training to get a private pilot certificate.
If one triples that number to add ground school and flight time we get
280 hours total for study and flight time. That does not seem like an
inordinate amount of time to spend over the course of a year -
especially if one were to say, fly 2 hours per weekend and study an hour
per night reading. How much time do you spend sitting at your
computer reading newsgroups and playing games? Most people can fit it
into their schedule. It is a matter of priorities.

As for expense - again, it is a matter of priorities. If one forgoes
new/leased cars and instead takes flying lessons it is quite accessible.



I've never met a pilot who wasn't thrilled to meet other pilots or who
disuaded others about learning to fly. On the contrary - all the
members of this "elitist club" (that you like to call it) usually go out
of their way to introduce others to the joy and fun of flying and will
mentor, give free flights, teach, talk about it or do anything else to
promote this passion of theirs.


Not so. They dislike simulation.

I see no correlation between simulation and real flying. I think your
experience is unique. Perhaps the reluctance of real pilots to welcome
you has little to do with your chosen way to spend time (simming/gaming)
than it is your clear and often rudely stated discussions about how GA
is useless and the pilots of GA aircraft are stupid, ignorant, filthy
rich, macho/testosterone filled babies with huge egos.

Most pilots I have met do not match the view you have of them.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Tim writes:

There may be some in the community who feel more special because they
fly, but that is not the norm.

Perhaps the abnormal ones are strangely attracted ot USENET, then.

Actually, however, the USENET syndrome is not unique to pilots. It's
much more closely associated with IQ than occupation.



Bwawhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahhwhahwhahhwhahwha hwhahhwhahwhahhwhahwhh
ahwhahwhha!


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Larry Dighera writes:

While I can understand your desire to get some feedback from those
currently enjoying the joy of flight before committing the not
insubstantial time and resources required to obtain your airmans
certificate, if you would let their input, or indeed that of your
wife, stand in the path to your dream, you may not have the requisite
'fire in your belly' to make a good airman.

Why must one have "fire in the belly" in order to be entitled to fly?
Is it a hazing ritual, or is it a hobby?

let me guess, you don't fly...



Bertie

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:37:18 +0000, Larry Dighera wrote:

Becoming a responsible airman is not really at all akin to becoming a
licensed motorist.

Why not? I don't mean what is, but what should be. I've seen some awful
drivers. Shouldn't the bar be higher than it is?

How often, just to a couple of common examples, do driving instructors
check on a student's handling of distractions? Or deal with the concept
of "personal minimums"?

Shouldn't they?

- Andrew

On 2007-03-15 06:47:01 -0700, "Google Madness" said:

Twenty years ago I almost got into flying, I'd even taken my Discovery
Flight and was all set to dive in. Then my wife-to-be put the kabosh on it
saying it was too much money.
Now money isn't so much an issue anymore and I'm all set once again to
follow my dream of having my PPL.
But, I've heard so many depressing things about the state of ( and future
of ) GA I'm wondering if the era of GA has passed me by.

Here's one article, like many others that I've read, that expresses many of
the issues that sounds so dismal for GA. I'm now seriously considering
scrapping the idea of a PPL once again but I'd like to hear from some people
out there if the situation is not really as bad as this sounds.

http://www.megginson.com/blogs/lahso...eral-aviation/

Thanks

Most of the stuff coming from AOPA should be printed with a black border.

People forget that there was a time when GA was not allowed above
10,000 feet, and there was a move to ban it completely in order to
prevent the Commies from using little airplanes to attack the US with
nukes.

Largely due to the efforts of AOPA, the bad old days are the bad old
days. However, we have to always be on our toes lest we see a return of
those times.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Regardles of how you/we view the past..

I am reminded of a story....

An elderly farmer was asked "when was the best time to plant an apple
tree?"

He replied.. " 'bout 10 years ago"

Then he was asked. "Well then, when is the next best time to plant
the apple tree?"

To which he replied.. "Right now"

We lost a good guy here this week, cancer... friend for 35yrs..and a
former pilot..... only a bit older than I...

...over to you.....

Dave




'On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:47:01 GMT, "Google Madness"
wrote:

Twenty years ago I almost got into flying, I'd even taken my Discovery
Flight and was all set to dive in. Then my wife-to-be put the kabosh on it
saying it was too much money.
Now money isn't so much an issue anymore and I'm all set once again to
follow my dream of having my PPL.
But, I've heard so many depressing things about the state of ( and future
of ) GA I'm wondering if the era of GA has passed me by.

Here's one article, like many others that I've read, that expresses many of
the issues that sounds so dismal for GA. I'm now seriously considering
scrapping the idea of a PPL once again but I'd like to hear from some people
out there if the situation is not really as bad as this sounds.

http://www.megginson.com/blogs/lahso...eral-aviation/

Thanks