VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Peter R. writes:

Not only do I have the tail-id but I also have the exact exchange,
thanks to LiveATC.net's 40-day archive. However, Larry, I am not
going to be the one to report anyone, since IMO this is quite a gray
area. I personally have a very different take on reporting pilots to
the FAA.

You'd prefer that he die in a thunderstorm instead?

For education purposes, though, I thought it might be beneficial to
retrieve and edit the archive files into a short clip (and also
removing the majority of the tail ID so the resulting clip cannot be
used against the pilot) with the relevant content. When I have the
clip, I will post it to a file sharing site and the link to this
thread.

You seem very worried about protecting the pilot--but you're not
protecting him in the right way.


How would you know, fjukkwit?

You don't fly.


Bertie

Just had a simliar experience today flying into PDX (portland, OR).

The onboard radar demonstrated some clear spots through heavy precip (no
electrical activity on Stormscope), while the Nexrad (which is delayed)
showed no path through.

Nexrad is great for the far away strategic planning, but is poor at tactical
planning up close, due to the delay. For this, onboard radar is the only way
to go.

Either way, trying this at night makes it even a lot harder.
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:21:35 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote in :

[Story of cluelessly inept pilot narrowly escaping disaster snipped]

Did you happen to note the aircraft's N number?

Someone should relate this incident to the appropriate FSDO office
before the tapes are wiped, so that the pilot can benefit from some
badly needed remedial WX training before his bumbling casts yet more
negative public opinion on GA, and saddens his friends and family.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 13:07:12 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote in
:

Just had a simliar experience today flying into PDX (portland, OR).

The onboard radar demonstrated some clear spots through heavy precip (no
electrical activity on Stormscope)


So your experience wasn't anything at all like that in the OP; there
was no CB.

I was taught, and experience has confirmed, that it's prudent to skirt
a cell by 20 miles to avoid hail damage, especially on the downwind
side.

The airman in the OP was clearly not exercising good judgment, and his
final comment about diverting toward the direction of advancing line
of CBs underscores his cluelessness.

I did not state that my experience was the same, or even similar. Rather, I
was trying to make the point that Nexrad is not a good tool for penetrating
a line of CB's, due to the time delay in receiving the information.

"Larry Dighera" wrote:


[Story of cluelessly inept pilot narrowly escaping disaster snipped]

Did you happen to note the aircraft's N number?

Someone should relate this incident to the appropriate FSDO office
before the tapes are wiped, so that the pilot can benefit from some
badly needed remedial WX training before his bumbling casts yet more
negative public opinion on GA, and saddens his friends and family.

Oh, nuts, Larry.

The pilot in question may or may not have acted irresponsibly; there's not
enough information here to know. It sounds like he was pushing the weather
too hard, but without being there we can't be sure.

Deciding to rat out another pilot to the FSDO requires much more egregious
conduct than this as a rationale, and much stronger evidence, too.


--
Dan

"Gut feeling"

Intestinologists concur that the human gut does not contain any
rational thoughts.

What the human gut *is* full of is moderately well
known.

Dan Luke writes:

Deciding to rat out another pilot to the FSDO requires much more egregious
conduct than this as a rationale, and much stronger evidence, too.

"Ratting" is more important than safety to you?

If safety is paramount, should we notifiy the French authorities that you
are stealing electric power?

Viperdoc writes:

If safety is paramount, should we notifiy the French authorities that you
are stealing electric power?

Only if you wish to learn how the French authorities deal with libel.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dan Luke writes:

Deciding to rat out another pilot to the FSDO requires much more
egregious conduct than this as a rationale, and much stronger
evidence, too.

"Ratting" is more important than safety to you?


Moron

Bertie

The XM input on the G-1000 specifically states that the displayed NEXRAD
weather cannot and should not be used to aviod rapidly moving storm cells.

NEXRAD also suffers from attenuation larger cells blocking other cells "on
the other side" of the cell from the radar transmitter.

BT

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
I was listening to LiveATC.net's feed of Syracuse, NY, yesterday (Sunday)
during the approach of a large thunderstorm line that was moving towards
the
airport from the south. At one point a VFR a Cessna 172, approaching the
airport from the west, checked in stating his intention to land at SYR.

As the C172 progressed, the controller called the pilot to report that the
aircraft was eight miles from and heading directly towards a line of
extreme
weather. The pilot responded in a somewhat unappreciative tone that he was
"painting" it. The controller responded with a rather surprised,
"Roger."

Moments later the controller again called to warn the pilot of extreme
weather at his twelve o'clock. The pilot then replied in what sounded like
an
annoyed tone that he was "picking our way through the weather using our
XM."
Again, the controller replied with a surprised "Roger."

With a quiet moment on the frequency, the controller called the pilot a
third
time to ask him to explain what XM meant. The pilot described the concept
of
XM NEXRAD on his Garmin 396, but then added that the refresh rate allowed
him
to see heavy weather on the 398 from 2 to 8 minutes old.

When I heard that the refresh rate was up to 8 minutes old, I cringed to
think that this pilot (this one didn't sound like an experienced freight
dog
to me, but maybe I was wrong) was picking his way through a field of
thunderstorms on a day where returns went from light to extreme in less
than
ten minutes.

Granted that the pilot was VFR so presumably he was seeing and avoiding
using
the outside picture primarily. But this day it was a typical northeast US
hazy and humid day with visibility around the 6 to 8 mile range, so having
the Garmin 396 for strategic avoidance was a good thing. It still made me
sweat from the comfort of my office chair to imagine that this pilot was
flying through the weather line using up to 8 minute old data (not even
considering the NEXRAD delay before the picture is uplinked to the XM
satellites) and declining the more real-time weather guidance offered by
ATC
(SYR approach has excellent weather radar).

Eventually a thunderstorm cell erupted right over the airport, resulting
in
numerous wind shear alerts and at least one microburst alert, so the pilot
called approach to state his intention of diverting southeast towards an
airport 50 nm south of SYR to wait out the weather.

--
Peter