PHOTOS FROM INSIDE IRAN

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"La N" wrote:

:
:"Vince" wrote in message
...
: Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "La N" wrote:
:
: :
: :"Vince" wrote in message
: ...
: : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "La N" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :"Vince" wrote in message :
: ...
: : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "La N" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :"Vince" wrote in message : :
: ...
: : : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "La N" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :"Vince" wrote in message : : :
: ...
: : : : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "La N" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :"Vince" wrote in message : :
: : : ...
: : : : : :
: : : : : : So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
: : : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : And yet oddly they wound up with it.
: : : : :
: : : : : Funny how that works, don't you think?
: : : : :
: : : : : [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I
: have : the : : time.
: : : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably
: mess : it up.
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
: : : : :
: : : : : you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
: : : : :
: : : :
: : : : Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
: fondness : for
: : : : drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
: : : :
: : : : It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
: : causes.
: : : : Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
: : than
: : : : thinking, particularly when drinking...
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : Note the lack of facts
: : : : When the facts get in Fred's way
: : : : He resorts to abuse
: : : :
: : : :
: : :
: : : Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
: : :
: : : Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
: : : unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
: that
: : : noticing them is 'abuse'.
: : :
: : : Again a fine example of Bush logic
: : : Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
: : :
: : :
: :
: : A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
: : abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
: Vin.
: :
: : :
: : :
: : : Just keep reading the dates
: : :
: : :
: :
: : Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
: :
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
: : : themselves
: : : :
: : : :
: : :
: : : And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
: with
: : : "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
: before.
: : :
: : :
: : : My goodness what ignorance
: : :
: : : Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
: : Ottoman : empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
: : ally, in the : same way France expected to get territory directly
: from : Germany etc.
: : : The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of
: the : : English war effort against the Germans
: : :
: : :
: :
: : What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
: : effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
: :
: : 1917?
: :
: : wow dates are a real problem for some
: :
: :
: : The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
: : all to do with Germany or WWI.
: :
: :
: : names and dates
: : When did England and decide to make the land grab?
: :
: :
: :Is this an open book exam? ...
: :
:
: See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
: began.
:
:
:
: What a hoot
:
: Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
:
:
: Rise to power
: Muhammad Ali Pasha
: Muhammad Ali Pasha
:
: The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way civil
: war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian mercenaries.
: It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of Egypt
: in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position. Thereafter,
: Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts henceforth
: were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical independence.
:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_u...his_successors
:

Poor Vinnie. He failed to understand the last two words of his cite -
"practical independence", as different from "actual independence".
That means it was politically still part of the Ottoman Empire, said
Empire and everyone else having not recognized its political
independence.

:

you still wrong.
Ali was a Khedive and his heirs had the position by hereditary right
That is not consistent with being "politically" part of the empire.

you are using 20th century language int he 19th century


Vince

"Vince" wrote in message
. ..
Fred J. McCall wrote:
"La N" wrote:

:
:"Vince" wrote in message
...
: Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "La N" wrote:
:
: :
: :"Vince" wrote in message
: ...
: : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : "La N" wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :"Vince" wrote in message :
: ...
: : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : "La N" wrote:
: : :
: : : :
: : : :"Vince" wrote in message : :
: ...
: : : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : "La N" wrote:
: : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :"Vince" wrote in message : :
:
: ...
: : : : : Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : : : : "La N" wrote:
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :"Vince" wrote in message :
:
: : : ...
: : : : : :
: : : : : : So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
: : : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : And yet oddly they wound up with it.
: : : : :
: : : : : Funny how that works, don't you think?
: : : : :
: : : : : [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
: : : : :
: : : : : :
: : : : : :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when
I
: have : the : : time.
: : : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost
inevitably
: mess : it up.
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : : It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
: : : : :
: : : : : you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal
it
: : : : :
: : : : :
: : : : :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
: : : : :
: : : :
: : : : Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
: fondness : for
: : : : drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
: : : :
: : : : It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement
Syndrome
: : causes.
: : : : Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is
easier
: : than
: : : : thinking, particularly when drinking...
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : Note the lack of facts
: : : : When the facts get in Fred's way
: : : : He resorts to abuse
: : : :
: : : :
: : :
: : : Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
: : :
: : : Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
: : : unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts'
and
: that
: : : noticing them is 'abuse'.
: : :
: : : Again a fine example of Bush logic
: : : Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
: : :
: : :
: :
: : A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in
'personal
: : abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
: Vin.
: :
: : :
: : :
: : : Just keep reading the dates
: : :
: : :
: :
: : Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
: :
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : : :
: : : :
: : : : The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak
for
: : : themselves
: : : :
: : : :
: : :
: : : And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to
do
: with
: : : "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
: before.
: : :
: : :
: : : My goodness what ignorance
: : :
: : : Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was
the
: : Ottoman : empire. England expected to take Palestine from
Germany's
: : ally, in the : same way France expected to get territory
directly
: from : Germany etc.
: : : The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support
of
: the : : English war effort against the Germans
: : :
: : :
: :
: : What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that
war
: : effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER,
Vinnie?
: :
: : 1917?
: :
: : wow dates are a real problem for some
: :
: :
: : The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had
bugger
: : all to do with Germany or WWI.
: :
: :
: : names and dates
: : When did England and decide to make the land grab?
: :
: :
: :Is this an open book exam? ...
: :
:
: See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
: began.
:
:
:
: What a hoot
:
: Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
:
:
: Rise to power
: Muhammad Ali Pasha
: Muhammad Ali Pasha
:
: The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way
civil
: war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian
mercenaries.
: It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of
Egypt
: in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position.
Thereafter,
: Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts
henceforth
: were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical
independence.
:
:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_u...his_successors
:

Poor Vinnie. He failed to understand the last two words of his cite -
"practical independence", as different from "actual independence".
That means it was politically still part of the Ottoman Empire, said
Empire and everyone else having not recognized its political
independence.

:

you still wrong.
Ali was a Khedive and his heirs had the position by hereditary right
That is not consistent with being "politically" part of the empire.

you are using 20th century language int he 19th century


Even I get that.

And why doesn't Fred just read you directly since he's inclined to debate
you.

- nilita

"La N" wrote:
:
:And why doesn't Fred just read you directly since he's inclined to debate
:you.
:

You've got that causation running the wrong way, dear. HE is inclined
to debate ME (and anyone else with sense - you apparently needn't
worry).

I just find it amusing that you keep finding new ping pong partners to
play with. First Jack and now Vinnie. So perhaps you should ask
yourself the question above with regard to me?

I thought they made you folks go through analysis so you'd understand
yourselves, yet you are the most self-blind and self-deluded person
I've ever seen. Your vocalized self-image is so at odds with how you
actually behave that it beggars the imagination.

The worst lies are the lies you tell yourself about yourself.

Ugly to the bone, I tell you...


--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

In message , Vince
writes
Fred J. McCall wrote:
Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
noticing them is 'abuse'.

Again a fine example of Bush logic
Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence

I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.

If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
_really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet
us again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a
certain desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of
opinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
debating them.

He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather
than his case?

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

In message , TMOliver
writes
But then a pragmatist might claim that hoors, dope and gambling, even in
great excess, do not match the cumulative sins of an Empire which in
dissolution has given us Zimbabwe,

Hey, Rhodesia declared unilateral independence and told Britain to get
lost, they would sort out their own problems.

Now we get blamed for letting them do it and ending up with Mugabe?

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Vince
writes
Fred J. McCall wrote:
Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
noticing them is 'abuse'.

Again a fine example of Bush logic
Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence

I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.

If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
_really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet us
again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a certain
desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of opinion on a
wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in debating them.

He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather than
his case?



I agree. I don't always agree with Vince, but I'm always intrigued to know
how he comes to his conclusions, and he provides relevant cites, laws, etc.
that back up his arguments. Apart from his occasional use of the term
"horsesh*t" - and that's no big deal - he doesn't engage in profanity and
personal insults with his online opponents, I have also heard that he is one
of the most gracious people/hosts/friends to know IRL.

- nilita

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

:In message , Vince
writes
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
: unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
: noticing them is 'abuse'.
:
:Again a fine example of Bush logic
:Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:
:
:... Vince and I have a number of differences of
pinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
:debating them.
:

So the preceding sarcastic insult is your idea of "courteous"?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

:
:He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
ne of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
n his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather
:than his case?
:

Because it is what HE does, despite frequent mealy-mouthed rejoinders
from him to the contrary. Also, since he's in my bit bucket I don't
expect to see much of his 'case' except when people start playing
usenet ping pong.


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

"La N" wrote:

:
:"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
: In message , Vince
: writes
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
: unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
: noticing them is 'abuse'.
:
:Again a fine example of Bush logic
:Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:
: I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.
:
: If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
: guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
: _really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet us
: again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a certain
: desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of opinion on a
: wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in debating them.
:
: He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
: one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
: on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather than
: his case?
:
:
:I agree. I don't always agree with Vince, but I'm always intrigued to know
:how he comes to his conclusions, and he provides relevant cites, laws, etc.
:that back up his arguments. Apart from his occasional use of the term
:"horsesh*t" - and that's no big deal - he doesn't engage in profanity and
ersonal insults with his online opponents, I have also heard that he is one
f the most gracious people/hosts/friends to know IRL.
:

You people suffer from the worst case of selective blindness I've ever
seen. Either that or you're outright liars pushing your own personal
agendas.

I know which one I think is true...


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

Fred J. McCall wrote:
[snip]

:
:On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the termination
f the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
:1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul formed the
:first representative government of Egypt.
:

Note the phrasing "British Protectorate". Just who were they
'protecting' it from?



The French and the Americans.

Andrew Swallow

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

:In message , Vince
writes
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
: unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
: noticing them is 'abuse'.
:
:Again a fine example of Bush logic
:Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:
:
:... Vince and I have a number of differences of
pinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
:debating them.
:

So the preceding sarcastic insult is your idea of "courteous"?


it is directed at the argument not yourself
I fully accept that your arguments are at the intellectual peak of Bush
supporters.

Vince