Looking for non-biased resource

Uneven surfaces can cause static pressure to vary with speed. There was an
article in ( I think) Business and Commercial Aviation saying that some
aircraft couldn't be RVSM certified, period, because of this issue.

Mike
MU-2


"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:

I have a friend who bought a CJ2 last month for about 5.3MM. The
$350K/yr is just assuming an interest cost a little below 7% it does not
consider ammortization of the loan. The RVSM comment was based on the
notion that the new jets all have RVSM or can have it added fairly easily
since they already have digital airdata. BTW getting RVSM on some older
jets is not trivial because the skins are not straight enough.. If you
are buying a $1MM airplane, $100K for RVSM is not trivial.

What does skin straightness have to do with it? It isn't obvious and I
couldn't find anything with a web search.


Matt

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Mike Rapoport wrote:

Who said anything about "one shot jobs". They are going to the coasts
frequently to do installations.

The suggestion made was to avoid travel by farming the installation out to
local
contractors. That makes it a series of "one shot jobs".

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

OK, but it makes more sense to train people for a *series* of one shot jobs
than for a single one shot job. I was thinking regional contractors, not
someone different for each job.

Mike
MU-2

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


xyzzy wrote:

So the client never has an opportunity to audit the expenses you charge
to them? Talk about trust.


Trust has nothing to do with it. The expenses are part of the cost of the
product. If the company doesn't want to pay it, they don't buy the software.

earlier in the thread he wrote:

Typically, they pay
refundable Y fare rates. It's spelled out in the P.O. what we will
expense
to the client and what the cap is.

That clearly implies that the airfare is not built into the cost of the
product, but is billed to the client as a separate line item.

I'm not questioning whether they should buy a jet, but I am questioning
his assertion that as long as his consultants use discretion, the client
won't know they flew in on a private jet.

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.


Lying will work great until it doesn't, and then you're screwed. My approach
would be to simply have a standardized rate of tables for each city and a
surrounding area, based on airline fares. I'd be upfront with the client
that you use a company jet and this is to their benefit because the
consultants will arrive fresh and cheerful and not be in a rush to be out
the door at 3pm so they can make the last plane out of town.

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

I did not.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

"nobody" wrote in message
. com...
Typically, they pay refundable Y fare rates.

Yeah, you SAP guys had it pretty damn good. Since you sold the system to the
CEO you could usually get a fair deal when it came to travel but we were a
lot farther down the food chain, and often had to eat travel costs
ourselves. Needless to say, that company is no longer in business...

I wonder how your clients knew how you flew. Most of my teams have enough
miles that they are traveling platinum elite status and almost without
exception, fly first class for the price of refundable coach. I'm not
aware
that the clients have any idea that my teams are traveling first class.

If the ticket cost was reasonable they wouldn't ask any questions. The main
thing they would grumble about was when they booked an appointment two
months out and we bought the ticket a week before, thus pushing us into the
high-fare bucket. The sales guys bitched about that too but then you should
have heard them moan when we had to throw a restricted ticket away because
they'd sell the same guy to a client in some other city the day after the
first client's job finished, and the cheap ticket we bought two months
earlier couldn't be changed. Idiots.

-cwk.

The sales guys bitched about that too but then you should
have heard them moan when we had to throw a restricted ticket away because
they'd sell the same guy to a client in some other city the day after the
first client's job finished, and the cheap ticket we bought two months
earlier couldn't be changed. Idiots.

-cwk.



So, the customer paid for the tickets, so your company was covered.

Your company got more revenue because the salesman sold the service and the
resource which was going to be sitting back at the office is now being put
to use in the field thus ensuring continued employment for said resource and
others.

Your salesman moaned because he had a feeling he would end up getting a
complaint from the customer on the cost of the travel ticket which would
mean more work for him (in case you were unaware, sales people work on
relationships and customer happiness. I suspect the installers moaned when
they learned that they would have to install in less than optimal
conditions? I know I did.)

From these circumstances you draw the conclusion that the salesmen were
idiots?

Perhaps you left out a premise or two?

I'm not supporting lying in any way. But, there is no reason to advertise
your mode of transportation. Personally it seems pretentious and
ostentatious other than in a passing remark or in response to a direct
question to reveal that you are traveling in such style. When somebody asks
what time is it, you don't say "Look at my Rolex!"

I have very little first hand experience with this, but, I have flown the
Warrior to several customers sites. Only one client knew that I flew
myself. Its always easy to be vague. When asked "What time does your
flight leave?", I simply look at my watch and say, "Oh, I've got plenty of
time." How was your flight? Great, I didn't lose my luggage.

CWK is right, when cornered we can be honest and justify the flight with the
same reasons that we justify the purchase, umm... if we justify the
purchase.

Ed


"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
. net...

"xyzzy" wrote in message
...
G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Audits and paper trails aside, when I have gone on customer engagements
I am always asked about my flight arrangements. Usually it's just the
customers' guys being friendly, looking to swap travel stories with road
warriors. Often I'm asked because it affects when meetings are
scheduled too. Unless they start telling lies in response to those
harmless queries, a practice that is hard to maintain, there is simply
no way that "discretion" will keep the clients from knowing they flew in
on a corproate jet. Especially since he's talking about using it to
small towns without good airline service.


Lying will work great until it doesn't, and then you're screwed. My
approach
would be to simply have a standardized rate of tables for each city and a
surrounding area, based on airline fares. I'd be upfront with the client
that you use a company jet and this is to their benefit because the
consultants will arrive fresh and cheerful and not be in a rush to be out
the door at 3pm so they can make the last plane out of town.

-cwk.

"Dude" wrote in message
...

Your salesman moaned because he had a feeling he would end up getting a
complaint from the customer on the cost of the travel ticket which would
mean more work for him

The problem is that the salesman would promise things he couldn't
necessarily deliver. For instance, he'd promise that the ticket would cost
no more than $300. This would work if we booked the ticket that very minute,
but experience showed that booking tickets more than two weeks in advance
(unless we bought Y fares which defeats the purpose) was dangerous due to
scheduling. And if we had to throw tickets away, he (head salesguy was also
the GM) would blame me (head of consulting) for that too. Heads or tails, I
lost.

From these circumstances you draw the conclusion that the salesmen were
idiots?

Regularly promising things you can't deliver at a given price (they did it
on every part of the deal, not just the travel) fits my definition pretty
well.

-cwk.

D'oh. Damn newsreader.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


C Kingsbury wrote:

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

I did not.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble
enterprise.