GPS and old-fashioned thinking?

In article ,
says...


The FAA, and the rest of the world as well, want to eventually shut-down
the VORs. The only remaining ground-based systems will be ILSes.


Uhm, not quite. The JAA is all hot about DME-DME area navigation. They
thing GPS is not reliable enough. Go figure...


The Europeans are ready to use every available argument (the threat of the US
unilaterally invoking Selective Availability being their favorite) to
denigrate GPS, so as to pave the way for their competing system, Galileo.
They see a huge market potential in a pay-per-use system, designed to
generate windfall profits for the usual group of sweetheart companies, but
they are threatened by the free availability of GPS. They have to denigrate
it to get funding for their system, then find regulatory means to make GPS
receivers illegal.

GF

In article ,
Thomas Borchert wrote:

but I'm
enough of a realist to understand that the people intent on blowing things
up are probably smart enough to turn their transponders off.

And radar sites manned by the FAA can do exactly WHAT about that?

primary radars are not reliant on cooperative targets.

--
Bob Noel
New NHL? what a joke

G,

The Europeans are ready to use every available argument (the threat of the US
unilaterally invoking Selective Availability being their favorite) to
denigrate GPS, so as to pave the way for their competing system, Galileo.
They see a huge market potential in a pay-per-use system, designed to
generate windfall profits for the usual group of sweetheart companies, but
they are threatened by the free availability of GPS. They have to denigrate
it to get funding for their system, then find regulatory means to make GPS
receivers illegal.


Exactly. Sadly.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

G Farris wrote:

The Europeans are ready to use every available argument (the threat of the US
unilaterally invoking Selective Availability being their favorite) to
denigrate GPS, so as to pave the way for their competing system, Galileo.

I can't blame them. If I lived outside the US, I would be pretty wary
about depending on a navigation system which I had no control over. It's
the same battle that happening now with control of the Internet.

Thomas Borchert wrote:
The FAA, and the rest of the world as well, want to eventually shut-down
the VORs. The only remaining ground-based systems will be ILSes.



Uhm, not quite. The JAA is all hot about DME-DME area navigation. They
thing GPS is not reliable enough. Go figure...

The JAA agenda is politically-driven. They simply don't want to use
those Dammn Yankee's GPS system. Also, in most of the JAA airspace,
there is a DME-rich environment, which is great for en route. But, the
model often collaspes on approach as the DMEs drop out and the remaining
two, or so, provide unacceptable geometry. If it is an RNP platform,
the alerts will become sufficiently dire to force a missed approach.

I am involved in the recent RNAV RNP programs. The JAA just quietly
looks the other way when some of its member states begin their journey
into performance-based RNAV (RNP) procedures that require GPS and IRUs
blended with advanced FMS platforms. DME/DME is simply not in that picure.

Go figure.

Thomas Borchert wrote:

John,

And you cannot do that with a map and compass?


Yes, you can. You can also ride into town on a horse. Do you?

Some people do ride horses. For fun. The map and compass will eventually
reach the same point.

But let's discuss why this will be (or perhaps already is) so. Someone
spoke of accuracy, which is a good point. The more precisely I know my
location, the more accurately I can follow an approach. And that,
typically, means that the approach is usable in lower weather.

Another major factor is time. The advantage of sophisticated RNAV (be it
the old fashioned kind or the kind silly enough to use only one input: GPS)
is that it leaves more time available to the pilot for other tasks. It
makes it easier to avoid issues like icing or CBs because it leaves more
time for "weather management", for example.

RNAV is one more tool for staying ahead of the airplane.

- Andrew

Thomas Borchert wrote:
The FAA, and the rest of the world as well, want to eventually shut-down
the VORs. The only remaining ground-based systems will be ILSes.



Uhm, not quite. The JAA is all hot about DME-DME area navigation. They
thing GPS is not reliable enough. Go figure...


Thia the pertinent note on the LOWI RNAV (RNP) IAP:

1. GPS and IRS required (DME/DME, LLZ and VOR/DME updating not authorized).

In article , says...



I can't blame them. If I lived outside the US, I would be pretty wary
about depending on a navigation system which I had no control over.

Half of me agrees with that, and finds it a reasonable position. If only it
weren't always the same companies gravitating around these projects. Just
today, the official announcement was made of Toulouse as the hub city for the
Galileo project (AirbusVille). So guess who - EADS, Alcatel, Thomson etc will
all be receiving strong subsidies to get set up there, and to "soften the blow"
of getting the project going, until they're ready to start raking in the big
cash when they start licensing.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the BEA (French NTSB) published a "white paper"
about GPS, stating it is a dangerous device, that "causes" pilots to be
inattentive and lose track of their situational awareness. I'll bet the
Brooklyn Bridge that when Galileo is ready to go on line the same agency will
hail it as a revolutionary invention, enhancing pilots' situational awareness.

By that time, Garmin will be up to G-3000 boxes, but if they try to make them
"Galileo Compliant" they will surely find that their boxes lack some code
required to be certified in JAA airspace.

GF

Roy Smith wrote On 12/02/05 19:41,:
In article Qn8kf.10512$_k3.3263@dukeread01,
JPH wrote:


john smith wrote:

Knowing EXACTLY where I am at all times and being able to direct to
pretty much everywhere (just the prohibited and restricted airspaces,
oh and TFR's to go around), save time, money and fuel.


And you cannot do that with a map and compass?

What's a compass?

John


It's the funny-looking thing above the dashboard that you hang the fuzzy
dice from.

I have found my refrigerator magnets stick there quite well.

Bob Noel wrote On 12/02/05 15:50,:
In article xl0kf.62898$qw.59268@fed1read07, wrote:


The FAA, and the rest of the world as well, want to eventually shut-down
the VORs. The only remaining ground-based systems will be ILSes.


DME, and probably MLS, will be around for a while longer.


I suspect that having more than 3 levels of backup is counterproductive.
I.e., GPS backed up by Loran backed up by VOR backed up by ADF, etc.
That represents a lot of onboard equipment to go wrong, forget how to
use, etc.

The obvious candidates to go are ADF, marker beacons, and DME.

DME isn't going away soon because the airlines use it. If the airlines
wanted toliets on ballons in the sky, they'ed get them.