Houston JS1c crash ONLY (not in any way about a Puchaczs, or anything else!)

As a 5'10'' 75kg pilot I've sat in but not flown most of the Schempp Hirth
Fuselage variants.

Std Cirrus / Mini Nimbus are plenty big enough!

The original Discus A / Ventus A were very small. I nearly bought a Ventus
A 20 years (And 5kg lighter) ago. I would have been OK in the summer,
wouldn't have been able to wear my winter woolies!

The Discus B / Ventus B are fine in all seasons.
(I have a shade under 1000hrs in Discus B)

Moving on to the Discus 2a / Ventus 2a - I've sat in the D2a, it's snug but
would probably be OK even in winter, and probably be OK for pilots up to 6'
or so. The D2b / V2b are positively roomy.

The Cockpit of D2c / V2c are pretty much the same as the D2b / V2c, if
anything feel slightly better for tall pilots.

According to SH the V2cax has "2cm more width and will fit pilots up to
1.9m"

V3 is likely to have similar size fuselages to V2c & V2cax

V3 is likely to be a little while away yet, hasn't flown yet & there's
probably quite a waiting list.
18m JS1 claims 53:1, so 55:1 could be possible

Of course after the 18m V3 FES flies there will probably be the 18m D3
FES.

Regards & more apologies for the drift

KN

At 19:32 14 May 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
What I have heard is the old "A" (suitable for very, very small frames)
wil=
l be slightly larger and renamed something like "Sport" and the old B
will
=
also be changed larger. This sounds like a smart move to me as very few
of=
the current pilots could possibly fit (let alone be comfortable) in the
A.=
As far as the C fuselage (or D, E and F, etc), lighten up "Francis."
It'=
s all for fun and trying to help answer a guy's question. If you have
some=
thing to offer or can do a better job, please go ahead and state it.

I have never flown a SH glider but I do have 2 owners of V2cxm's in my
hang=
ar in MI. I think I know a thing or two about the gliders, their quality
a=
nd their performance. Excellent on all counts.

I've read the posts with interest, and some valid and some invalid points have been made. Looking at performance, the 29 is is really good, and had the edge on both the V2 and the old JS, especially so in good weather, when running hard. The 29 handles really well, but the 18m JS handles better, and gives more input to the pilot on where the energy is, especially at mauw. The V2 climbs well, but cannot run with either the 18m JS or the 29. Rigging the 29 is easier, as the JS inner wing is heavy, but if you have a hangar or rigging aid this is a moot point. Very little to choose between the JS and the 29' although I believe the finish on the later JS's are slightly better than the 29, and the 29's wings warp after the 2nd season. Also, the new evo has the edge on the 29, judging by the runs we had at the Grand Prix in Worcester.
The best production open class glider currently is the EB 29, but there is really very, very little difference between the two (almost like the ASW 17 was just a fraction better than the Nimbus 2). But at three times the price of the 21m JS, and an animal on the ground, I really prefer the JS. I've been washing and polishing 26m wings for a long time, and the extra 5 meters makes a big difference :-) .
The difference comes in the handling. Although the EB handles very well for such a big glider, the 21m JS is really just the ultimate I have experienced in handling. Using the right technique, it out-thermals almost anything at max weight, and it's dynamic soaring is unsurpassed. If price was not an issue, I would still choose a JS over an EB.
The Quintus is just not there, especially taking into account the trouble between Tilo and Lange. For The same reason, buying an Antares is a risky option, plus if the black box goes wrong (and it does), its a very costly replacement. The 18m LAK runs well, but cant climb. The 21m LAK is really a frightning thing, and I turn my head every time it takes off. Those wings are just not made for the 21m tips.
The 21m JS at max weight is really well behaved on tow, and a lot more manageable than a ASW 22, Nimbus 4 or ASH 25, even an ASW 27. Fly any of these slow on aerotow at your peril. I suspect that the JS lulls pilots into a false sense of security because it is so well behaved. But things go wrong quickly if you do not concentrate on what you are doing, and it normally does not end well after that.
Oscar Goudriaan.
(btw, I dont even get commision for this, nor paid for my time to write these posts 😊. I'll send you an invoice Leo)

And then of course there is the Jet. There is no better way to bring out the little boy in a man when you light that stove😄

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 1:34:44 PM UTC-6, OG wrote:
I've read the posts with interest, and some valid and some invalid points have been made. Looking at performance, the 29 is is really good, and had the edge on both the V2 and the old JS, especially so in good weather, when running hard. The 29 handles really well, but the 18m JS handles better, and gives more input to the pilot on where the energy is, especially at mauw.. The V2 climbs well, but cannot run with either the 18m JS or the 29. Rigging the 29 is easier, as the JS inner wing is heavy, but if you have a hangar or rigging aid this is a moot point. Very little to choose between the JS and the 29' although I believe the finish on the later JS's are slightly better than the 29, and the 29's wings warp after the 2nd season. Also, the new evo has the edge on the 29, judging by the runs we had at the Grand Prix in Worcester.

Oscar Goudriaan.
(btw, I dont even get commision for this, nor paid for my time to write these posts 😊. I'll send you an invoice Leo)

Oscar, if you said anything different, them brothers would feed you to the lions! Isn't that a hard glide comparison with only one 29 at Worcester(see below)? The 29's wing warp???....Oscar...it must be close to feeding time for them cats!
Seriously, what all these fine machines do show is they all are capable of producing a winner. The winner being the pilot who makes the best decisions during that time frame.

Best regards, #711.

African Sailplane Qualifying Grand Prix 2015
Worcester, Western Cape, South Africa, 03/01/2015 - 11/01/2015
Previous day Task Meteo Daily Total Next day

18-meter
Overall results after day 7

# CN Pilot Team Glider Total
1. LG Laurens J. Goudriaan RSA JS 1c-18 evo 57
2. AJ Uli Schwenk GER JS 1b evo 50
3. SJ Holger Karow GER JS 1b 41
4. UJ Claus Triebel GER JS 1b evo 36
5. OG Oscar Goudriaan RSA JS 1c-18 evo 34
6. BAT John Coutts NZL JS 1a 25
7. JS1 Klaus Kalmbach GER JS 1a 22
8. EG Sven Olivier RSA JS 1b 18
9. WL William Whittaker RSA ASH 26 5
10. 133 Bernd Hubka GER ASG 29 3

OG, thank you for your JS-1 feedback. Respectful congratulations; your accomplishments in the JS-1 21m are nothing less than world class outstanding.

You are one of the few people in the world who has the experience to answer these questions. I'm assuming the JS-1 C 18/21 model uses the 18m EVO tips when in 18m span. Since the center section of the JS-1 C 18/21 has to be stronger (meaning stiffer) to handle more wingspan load, how much more does it weigh than the center section of the JS-1C 18m EVO? When in the air, is there a noticeable difference in energy "feedback" between the JS-1 C 18 EVO and the JS-1 C 21 with 18m EVO tips? In your opinion, does the JS-1 21 flying the 18m EVO tips give up any performance to the "pure" JS-1 18m EVO?

Thank you for your responses.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:34:44 PM UTC-4, OG wrote:
I've read the posts with interest, and some valid and some invalid points have been made. Looking at performance, the 29 is is really good, and had the edge on both the V2 and the old JS, especially so in good weather, when running hard. The 29 handles really well, but the 18m JS handles better, and gives more input to the pilot on where the energy is, especially at mauw.. The V2 climbs well, but cannot run with either the 18m JS or the 29. Rigging the 29 is easier, as the JS inner wing is heavy, but if you have a hangar or rigging aid this is a moot point. Very little to choose between the JS and the 29' although I believe the finish on the later JS's are slightly better than the 29, and the 29's wings warp after the 2nd season. Also, the new evo has the edge on the 29, judging by the runs we had at the Grand Prix in Worcester.
The best production open class glider currently is the EB 29, but there is really very, very little difference between the two (almost like the ASW 17 was just a fraction better than the Nimbus 2). But at three times the price of the 21m JS, and an animal on the ground, I really prefer the JS. I've been washing and polishing 26m wings for a long time, and the extra 5 meters makes a big difference :-) .
The difference comes in the handling. Although the EB handles very well for such a big glider, the 21m JS is really just the ultimate I have experienced in handling. Using the right technique, it out-thermals almost anything at max weight, and it's dynamic soaring is unsurpassed. If price was not an issue, I would still choose a JS over an EB.
The Quintus is just not there, especially taking into account the trouble between Tilo and Lange. For The same reason, buying an Antares is a risky option, plus if the black box goes wrong (and it does), its a very costly replacement. The 18m LAK runs well, but cant climb. The 21m LAK is really a frightning thing, and I turn my head every time it takes off. Those wings are just not made for the 21m tips.
The 21m JS at max weight is really well behaved on tow, and a lot more manageable than a ASW 22, Nimbus 4 or ASH 25, even an ASW 27. Fly any of these slow on aerotow at your peril. I suspect that the JS lulls pilots into a false sense of security because it is so well behaved. But things go wrong quickly if you do not concentrate on what you are doing, and it normally does not end well after that.
Oscar Goudriaan.
(btw, I dont even get commision for this, nor paid for my time to write these posts 😊. I'll send you an invoice Leo)

For all the JS1 C s there is only one type of inner wing panel.


At 20:28 15 May 2015, wrote:
OG, thank you for your JS-1 feedback. Respectful congratulations;
your
acco=
mplishments in the JS-1 21m are nothing less than world class
outstanding.

You are one of the few people in the world who has the experience to
answer=
these questions. I'm assuming the JS-1 C 18/21 model uses the 18m
EVO
tips=
when in 18m span. Since the center section of the JS-1 C 18/21 has
to be
s=
tronger (meaning stiffer) to handle more wingspan load, how much
more does
=
it weigh than the center section of the JS-1C 18m EVO? When in the
air, is
=
there a noticeable difference in energy "feedback" between the JS-1 C
18
EV=
O and the JS-1 C 21 with 18m EVO tips? In your opinion, does the JS-
1 21
fl=
ying the 18m EVO tips give up any performance to the "pure" JS-1
18m EVO?

Thank you for your responses.=20

Ben - i came to the same conclusion as you from Jonker's website. If I have understood well from Andy Davis (UK distributor) then the JS-1C is one model with three tip options: 18m, 18m Evo and 21m. The inboard wing section, and indeed everything else apart from the tips is the same regardless of which tips you choose. If you buy a JS-1C 18 Evo then you are buying a JS-1C with 18m Evo tips rather than the standard 18m tips.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:28:20 PM UTC+1, wrote:
OG, thank you for your JS-1 feedback. Respectful congratulations; your accomplishments in the JS-1 21m are nothing less than world class outstanding..

You are one of the few people in the world who has the experience to answer these questions. I'm assuming the JS-1 C 18/21 model uses the 18m EVO tips when in 18m span. Since the center section of the JS-1 C 18/21 has to be stronger (meaning stiffer) to handle more wingspan load, how much more does it weigh than the center section of the JS-1C 18m EVO? When in the air, is there a noticeable difference in energy "feedback" between the JS-1 C 18 EVO and the JS-1 C 21 with 18m EVO tips? In your opinion, does the JS-1 21 flying the 18m EVO tips give up any performance to the "pure" JS-1 18m EVO?

Thank you for your responses.

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 3:34:44 PM UTC-4, OG wrote:
I've read the posts with interest, and some valid and some invalid points have been made. Looking at performance, the 29 is is really good, and had the edge on both the V2 and the old JS, especially so in good weather, when running hard. The 29 handles really well, but the 18m JS handles better, and gives more input to the pilot on where the energy is, especially at mauw. The V2 climbs well, but cannot run with either the 18m JS or the 29. Rigging the 29 is easier, as the JS inner wing is heavy, but if you have a hangar or rigging aid this is a moot point. Very little to choose between the JS and the 29' although I believe the finish on the later JS's are slightly better than the 29, and the 29's wings warp after the 2nd season. Also, the new evo has the edge on the 29, judging by the runs we had at the Grand Prix in Worcester.
The best production open class glider currently is the EB 29, but there is really very, very little difference between the two (almost like the ASW 17 was just a fraction better than the Nimbus 2). But at three times the price of the 21m JS, and an animal on the ground, I really prefer the JS. I've been washing and polishing 26m wings for a long time, and the extra 5 meters makes a big difference :-) .
The difference comes in the handling. Although the EB handles very well for such a big glider, the 21m JS is really just the ultimate I have experienced in handling. Using the right technique, it out-thermals almost anything at max weight, and it's dynamic soaring is unsurpassed. If price was not an issue, I would still choose a JS over an EB.
The Quintus is just not there, especially taking into account the trouble between Tilo and Lange. For The same reason, buying an Antares is a risky option, plus if the black box goes wrong (and it does), its a very costly replacement. The 18m LAK runs well, but cant climb. The 21m LAK is really a frightning thing, and I turn my head every time it takes off. Those wings are just not made for the 21m tips.
The 21m JS at max weight is really well behaved on tow, and a lot more manageable than a ASW 22, Nimbus 4 or ASH 25, even an ASW 27. Fly any of these slow on aerotow at your peril. I suspect that the JS lulls pilots into a false sense of security because it is so well behaved. But things go wrong quickly if you do not concentrate on what you are doing, and it normally does not end well after that.
Oscar Goudriaan.
(btw, I dont even get commision for this, nor paid for my time to write these posts 😊. I'll send you an invoice Leo)

You hit the nail on the head Tom. It's still the pilot that makes the difference, and dont get me wrong, the 29 is still a brilliant machine. If I lived in Europe, I would own one.
Need to go and face Uys now😜

Ben, I believe the inner wing weight is only a function of where the wing is cut (for the tips). The V2 and 29 inner wing panels are shorter than the JS, hence the lighter weight. Personally, I prefer the handling and ride of the 21m, but I am biassed to longer wings😄

Thanks OG. The JS-1 self launch has been mentioned. Pardon my rudeness for "pinching" you but is the prototype flying?

Ben, I believe the inner wing weight is only a function of where the wing is cut (for the tips). The V2 and 29 inner wing panels are shorter than the JS, hence the lighter weight. Personally, I prefer the handling and ride of the 21m, but I am biassed to longer wings😄