USA and FAI rules

But should new pilots expect to do well immediately and if somehow they can't compete initially (as in they are a new contest pilot) run off screaming "you meanies" while in tears?

If that's the environment we must provide to get new pilots into the sport we might as well go back to the participation certificate and no
scoring conversation.

It has nothing to do with how well he does. My concern is the unrealistic expectation and what he would do (run off) if he did not meet his expectation of being competitive out of the box.

Sean

All -

I think people put too much of an emphasis on a couple of key words in
my last post, so let me clarify: The key words were "FIGHTING CHANCE".

I was not implying that we have to coddle people, or give them all
gold stars, or anything of the sort. YES, it should be hard. YES,
there should be learning and skill involved. NO, I didn't expect to
win my first contest (and I didn't even come close). NO, I am not some
kind of "win at all costs" personality.

BUT, and this is the key thing that I was trying to point out: Most
people don't go to a _competition_ in order to come in last place.
They want to feel like they can _compete_. You have to give them an
avenue to feel like they are _competitive_.

Will they have fun? Dear God I hope so - I certainly do! Out here in
WA state, we have been holding an event every Memorial Day weekend for
the last 4 years, called the "Dust Up". It was designed to introduce
new pilots to racing. We hold a series of seminars in the 2 months
leading up to the "contest", showing pilots how to prepare and what's
important to bring. Then we hold 3 days of tasks, starting easy and
slowly ramping up the difficulty. We also hold round-table discussions
and presentations each night. Its been phenomenally successful, and
one of the biggest comments we always hear is how people were afraid
to try a "real" contest - either because they feared they would be
embarrassingly bad, or drag the contest down, or couldn't make it
around the course. And it isn't just newbies to soaring - some of
these people are highly-successful XC pilots with 500+km flights! The
point - again - is that you have to have a point of entry that makes
people _want_ to give it a go.

Yes, some people go to contests just for fun. Some don't ever care
about winning or doing well, and that's OK. But those people are the
minority, and certainly NOT the people who are going to push our
National team to get better - which was the origin of this whole
thread and is what I was posting about.

BTW, TATs/AATs can be super-competitive; and if your CD is only
calling 20-30 mile cylinders then they're doing it wrong. And they
don't have to call 1 mile cylinders to do it right, either (otherwise
you're right back to the luck-factor that is such a problem in ATs,
which I've previously harped on so I won't repeat them here). A 5-10
mile circle will enable some flexibility, eliminate some of the luck-
factor, allow a reasonable spread of handicaps and pilot-skills to
complete the task, and still be "race-y".

For MATs... As John and others have pointed out, they can be used in a
ton of ways. Sometimes the weather dictates a starting point and an
open task. But certainly "Long MATs" and an open section with final
turnpoints (to guide you back to the airport from a certain direction,
or over certain areas) can be used successfully and still give a good
task. Of course, if the weather's weak its not going to be as "fun"
for most folks no matter WHAT you call. I'd rather have a task I can
complete, than a ton of retrieves.

Demand better tasking, don't just declare the system broken. That's
like calling a hammer a piece of **** just because you can't unscrew
an AN4 bolt with the thing!

--Noel

You say "The handicapping and spread of pilot experience made Sports Class far
more appealing. And the supportive atmosphere from fellow competitors
(especially the experienced ones who freely share their local
knowledge and wisdom) keep me coming back. And I've found that
atmosphere much more prevalent in Regional handicapped races, than at
high-stakes Nationals."

I say, wow!?! *I don't get this statement, at all. *Far more appealing to race a cirrus vs. a V2? *So the larger the handicap spread the more appealing a sailplane

Sean - Its not the fact that racing against different kind of gliders
was appealing. It was that the handicap means that the V2 may not win
if I fly a Cirrus better than the pilot of the V2 flies his aircraft.
We may go different distances, but this is not a NASCAR or SCCA
racetrack (something I used to do, BTW). Nor is it a sailboat race on
the same course, side-by-side. Since we all go out the gate at
different times, we're all flying through different air. WE'RE ALL ON
DIFFERENT RACE COURSES. That is a fundamental issue in sailplane
racing. The ground beneath you does not, in itself, define your race-
track. Its a combination of that ground AND the air over the ground at
the precise instant you fly through it. And your starting strategy
helps to set "which" race-course you wind up flying (except Grand Prix
racing, of course). So our glider-racing is inherently a "man versus
wild" sport, predominantly. KS could fly my DG-300 better than anyone
in the world, but in a non-handicapped race he could lose every time
to a decent (but not world-beating) pilot in a Ventus 2 - through no
fault of his own. THAT is what is good about handicapping - the idea
that the pressure is on ME to perform; not just have the fanciest
glass and only be "OK" at my craft (I've seen too much of that in auto-
racing.).

Now in 2009, when I started, the only option for a handicapped race
was in the Sports Class. This meant flying separate from "big dogs" in
15-meter and Standard class, not dealing with the inherent
disadvantage of facing their ships, and possibly flying tasks that
were harder than I was comfortable with on my first contest. I agree
that at the Sports Class Nationals, you have veterans and fancy ships
and the whole system is a little screwy because of the pressure to get
on the Worlds team. HOWEVER, at Regionals I find the spirit of the
Sports Class to be largely successful: The lower-performance ships and
the newer pilots tend to fly in the class; and more experienced guys
with faster glass go to the 15/18/Std classes. Around my local scene,
anyone that dominates in the Sports Class Regionals is encouraged and/
or razzed, so they feel pressure to move to one of the other classes
and face a "real challenge".

You seem to be one of the people who has an extreme opinion about the
Club Class vs. the Sports Class, so let me reiterate that I was not
making a statement either way about these two classes. I was only
pointing out the value of an entry-point for competition and how the
handicapped class helps that. My own experiences are only with Sports
Class because that's all I know. *shrug* I'm moving "up" and out of
the class after flying in 7 contests and really don't care to be drawn
into the big debate over Sports vs. Club; its gotten to the point of
being like arguing about religion and I'd rather fly... :-)

--Noel

Sean -

Thanks for trying to malign my manhood by insinuating I'd cry or do
something "less than manly" if I didn't win. I'm sure that earns you a
lot of respect around the water-cooler.

I never stated that I would "run off" if I didn't do well initially.
My comments were all about PERCEPTION and HUMAN NATURE, _before_
entering the contest scene. It had nothing to do with the actual
results.

I encourage you to re-read my posts and actually take time to
understand the meaning of the words. Then, if you want to try to
insult me more, please feel free.

Thanks!

--Noel


On Jan 30, 5:39*pm, "Sean F (F2)" wrote:
But should new pilots expect to do well immediately and if somehow they can't compete initially (as in they are a new contest pilot) run off *screaming "you meanies" while in tears?

If that's the environment we must provide to get new pilots into the sport we might as well go back to the participation certificate and no
scoring conversation.

It has nothing to do with how well he does. *My concern is the unrealistic expectation and what he would do (run off) if he did not meet his expectation of being competitive out of the box.

Sean