Getting a little sick of it all

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
If he's had it long enough, it may well be a deal at that price. My Six
has
doubled in value since I bought it 9 years ago. That number is not far
off
from my "investment". As investments go, the airplane has performed quite
a
bit better than my market holdings, and I've been able to use it too!

Consider yourself lucky; many aircraft values have plummeted the past few
years. Our company bought two aircraft in the past three years at
substantial discounts (like desperation sales...asking for $3.1 and selling
at $2.4 after sitting for six months and needing to get out of it.)

Note the time span. While aircraft values have plumetted in the last 2-3 years,
there was a significant appreciation in aircraft values before the slump. Like
I said, if he's owned it long enough....

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Consider yourself lucky; many aircraft values have plummeted the past few
years. Our company bought two aircraft in the past three years at
substantial discounts (like desperation sales...asking for $3.1 and selling
at $2.4 after sitting for six months and needing to get out of it.)

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Roger Tracy" wrote in message . ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down ..
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Idd rather take a few hundred dollar loss in a pre purchace inspection than
a $20,000 or more loss


"John Galban" wrote in message
om...
"Roger Tracy" wrote in message
. ..
snip
I don't buy junk. I don't fly junk. I take care of my
planes ..
so if there's any issues they're pretty minor ones. So while I'm not
inflexible on price ..
using the prebuy and a discrepensy list to try to haggle the price down
...
just don't
work.

You're sure that any issues will be minor ones? Often, having a
different A&P look at a plane will uncover a problem that wasn't
noticed by the current one. I'd say you'd have to qualify your
statement above. If the prebuy uncovered significant discrepancies
that you did not know about (or tell him about), why shouldn't the
seller expect you to adjust the price accordingly.

I agree in general that a buyer who wants to nitpick minor items
into big price adjustments should probably be shown the door. But on
the other hand, as a buyer, the prepurchase inspection will probably
be the single biggest factor in determining the true value of the
airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

I have only bought one plane a 1966 C150.Bought it last April. I had a
pre-buy done by a mechanic freind and
found a problem the seller was not aware of. The seller
flew the plane to my local field and stayed around while
my AI did the inspection.It was the best money I have spent. I would not buy
a plane without an "independent"
pre-buy.You did right to walk.!!!!!!!!

Bob Barker N8749S

"Dan Luke" wrote
The average private airplane flies 26 hours a year.

That surprises me.

Two hours/month; seems hardly worth the bother.

Note I said average, not median. You fly 120 hours a year, I've been
known to fly twice that. For every one of us, how many have to not
fly at all to make the numbers work?

I've looked at the private planes at my home field, and the average is
just about right - but the distribution is bimodal. There are the
people flying 50+ hours, and there are the people flying less than 20.
I think half the planes fly once or twice a year or not at all.

Michael

"MRQB" wrote in message ...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.


I saw this coming when you posted that you had cash and were looking
for a "quick sale". As I recall, I mentioned something to the effect
that this would seem very attractive to junk dealers. To them, a
quick sale means that you will not dig deep as far as inspections and
paperwork are concerned.

It sounds to me like you are taking your time to make a thoroughly
informed purchasing decision. People selling junk do not take kindly
to this. Too bad for them. Don't get worked up about it. Don't
argue with them on the phone. Just walk away. The moment a seller
tells you that you can't have your independent A&P inspect the
aircraft, just thank him for his time and walk away. This is not a
person from which you want to be buying an aircraft.

Ultimately, patience is the key to getting a good one. It takes a
lot of time, looking at a lot of junk, to find a good reliable
airplane that is reasonably priced (unless you're very lucky).

It took me six months to find my first airplane and 3 months to find
my second. In both cases, I stumbled across my eventual purchase
before it was advertised. Also in both cases, I spent most of the
total time looking at airplanes that were eventually found to be
unsuitable for one reason or another. It's the price you have to pay
to weed out the not-so-great airplanes from the great ones. It is not
a quick process and IMHO, not a particularly enjoyable experience to
have to repeatedly waste time wading through logbooks of aircraft you
won't purchase.

Why bother? I have several friends and acquaintences that didn't do
a thorough job in the weeding process and had to live with the
results. For the most part, they regretted it for a long time (and
many paychecks). A few became disenchanted with ownership and sold
out at a loss, never to return to ownership. So, just have some
patience with the process and do not buy anything that you didn't
thoroughly check out. Some of the scariest planes I ever saw had sexy
new paint jobs and sparkling interiors.

Good Luck,

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"Dan Luke" writes:

"Michael" wrote:
The average private airplane flies 26 hours a year.

That surprises me.

Two hours/month; seems hardly worth the bother.

It's not. It's not safe either. That's how much I was flying before
I bought my own airplane; my flying club moved one direction, I moved
the other, and suddenly a 3 mile trip turned into 40 miles.

Now I fly over 100 hours a year, not a huge amount but I'm a lot safer
and enjoy it a lot more.

"Bob Fry" wrote:
It's not. It's not safe either. That's how much I was
flying before I bought my own airplane; my flying club
moved one direction, I moved the other, and suddenly
a 3 mile trip turned into 40 miles.

Now I fly over 100 hours a year, not a huge amount but
I'm a lot safer and enjoy it a lot more.

My story almost exactly.

What I will never understand are the owners who almost never fly. I can
see a temporary stretch of low or no activity for health, financial or
other oersonal reasons, but there are so many who own an aircraft for
years and just let it sit. I don't get it.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
Note the time span. While aircraft values have plumetted in the last 2-3
years,
there was a significant appreciation in aircraft values before the slump.
Like
I said, if he's owned it long enough....

I imagine the surge in prices went along with the stock market bubble; same
thing with cars and other high priced goodies. When the bubble vurst, it
took a lot of things with it.

Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Consider yourself lucky; many aircraft values have plummeted the past
few
years. Our company bought two aircraft in the past three years at
substantial discounts (like desperation sales...asking for $3.1 and
selling
at $2.4 after sitting for six months and needing to get out of it.)