World Class: Recent Great News

It states on DG's website that the moulds for the LS4
have been released to Slovenia. So this would indicate
that the LS4 will be entering production again.

Discus 1's are also still in production in the CS variety
last time I heard.

Word.


At 17:06 11 March 2004, Owain Walters wrote:

Gregg,

I dont want to appear petty in the face of your posting
but Ben said:

1)LS4 not LS3, and until very recently the LS4 was
in production

2)Ben owns a Discus 2a. I believe he said a Discus
1.

I dont want to cast doubt on the ability of the pilots
in the competition you mentioned but I interpret your
story that the competition was of a low class. Any
competition where anyone who misses two days and only
just misses out on winning is hardly testing the pilots
talents.

Unless he/she likes being a big fish in a small pond
he/she will move out of the World Class pretty quickly.


Again, Ben said that he feels, as I do, that most World
Level pilots are very interested in the idea of a single-glider
compeition but they are not willing to buy somethng
(however 'cheap') just to potter around at 1960s performance.

Owain

I would suggest looking at the World ratings before
you cast doubts on peoples ability.


At 16:36 11 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA
the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to
ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of
producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right
from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider
and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make
your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years
world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full
days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that
wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing
the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I
suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the
same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the
idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots
of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not
was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But
stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect
that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And
YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get
for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders
in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek

I think the answer is Yes

36:1 is Std Cirrus or Libelle performance & allows
an average to good pilot on an average to good (UK)
Summers day to fly 300k

The PW5, with not much more than K6e performance needs
either an excellent pilot, or an excellent day to fly
the same distance. (And the same pilot or the same
day would result in a 500 in the Cirrus or Libelle!)


Is even 36:1 enough to satisfy naysayers?

I think the answer is no. I think those who don't
want
to fly the PW-5 simply won't accept anything with fixed
gear, and/or find it absurd to fly a retract with the
gear safety wired down...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

This is becoming fun!

Yes, my Discus 2 is a piece of crap compared to an
ETA - accepted. Incidentally, I take no exception
to you saying that.

But there are plenty of people prepared to fly Discus
2s (and LS8s/ASW28s) but not many prepared to fly PW5s.
I am not knocking the glider - just it's use as the
World Class Glider.

Secondly, who said anything about an LS3? And the
LS4 will be back in production soon.

I own a Discus 2, not a Discus 1. So, I am not trying
to make my glider apply to two classes at once. The
Discus 2 would be a bad choice as it is too expensive.

Your story about the guy showing up two days late and
nearly winning the class doesn't not help your argument
- in fact, it helps mine. It clearly demonstates a
lack of competitiveness within the class. I have never
seen anyone show up two days late for a standard class
comp and nearly win.

You are entitled to your opinion that the PW5 is a
good world class glider. I am equally entitled to
my opinion that the PW5 has killed a class that could
be great for gliding. I am not going to stop saying
this as I believe it to be the truth.



Ben.

At 16:36 11 March 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
Going futher with you logic - How about making ETA
the new world
class? Your Discus is a piece of crap comparing to
ETA and who would
want to fly Discus when you can compete in better glider?

And making LS3 - an used glider that is long out of
producion a world
class?
Its like signing the idea of world class to die right
from the
begining. Look nobody forces you to sell you glider
and step down, you
can compete in your own class, why do you want make
your glider apply
to two classes at once?

I think I've pointed it out before, look at last years
world class
nationals, a guy showed up and after missing 2 full
days of
competition and while flying a borrowed glider that
wasnt really in
the shape for competeing, took second place missing
the first place by
millimeters. What does it mean about the pilots? I
suppose you cant
complain about the glider anymore, everyone had the
same...

Where I live around Chicagoland area I've seen the
idea of Pw-5
working - almost every club has one and there is lots
of private ones.
Like someone pointed out earlier world class was not
was not designed
to be a massive success, dont like it? Stay out! But
stop spitting at
it all the time, because there are people that I respect
that fly it
and they much better glider pilots than you are. And
YES it pretty
lame that in todays economy this is all you can get
for around
25K(new), but untill they gonna start making gliders
in China we have
to live with what we've got.

Regards

Gregg Kurek

If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders

I thought that this was the goal of the club class.

So if the cost is the deciding factor, fly club class.

A 304c may cost more than a PW5- but the all round
performance is better. You get what you pay for at
the end of the day.

For the yanks, your 'bang per buck' in the states,
ready to go.

PW5- 33:1= $1060 per l/d point

304c- 42.7:1= $1311 per l/d point

I know which I'd rather pay. Also, think of the resale
value- which is going to hold its value better? give
10 years of use/depreciation and I bet they are even
closer in L/D per $.

If someone was on a budget and wanted PW5 performance,
why not just go buy a K6?

Lets just send all the PW5's to the states. Or a bonfire.


At 18:54 11 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Ben Flewett wrote:

Mark,

So am I! That's my whole point! I would like to
see
the World Class concept take off but we need a better
glider as the PW5 is too many steps backwards (over
40 years) for most pilots to accept.

You talk about the Sparrowhawk or AC4 as candidates
for the next World class glider. I haven't flown
either
of these (and never will). But why would you change
the PW5 for some other piece of rubbish when history
has shown that pilots will not accept such a regression
in performance? In fact, why bother making the change
at all - it's just a giant leap sideways.

The LS4 or Discus 1 would be ideal in my opinion.

A lot of the excitement over having the LS4 as the
World Class glider
seems to revolve around the idea it would cost about
as much as a PW5
and have the build quality of the LS4. I think that
is a hopelessly
naive idea, based on these facts:

$35,000 PW5, IN THE USA, with standard instruments,
radio, and trailer

$43,000 304C (standard class), IN EUROPE, no radio
or trailer
$13,000 trailer, shipping, radio
-------
$56,000 in the USA

Basically, the 304C is an LS4. Now, maybe there are
pilots that think
it's still the better value, even at $21,000 more,
but it's not a cheap
glider. If a goal of the World Class is low cost gliders,
pilots will
have to accept it must be a smaller, lighter glider
that won't glisten
like a polished mirror. Size, weight, and finish do
matter when you are
manufacturing something.

I hope someone with glider manufacturing experience
will tell us why I
am right/wrong about this.

--
-----
change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Shaun McLaughlin wrote in message ...
Lets just send all the PW5's to the states. Or a bonfire.


God no, what did we do to deserve that? Send them back to Poland.