At last, the truth...

Jay,

I had only come across half a dozen or so of folks who no longer
flew. Here are the reasons which they gave me: a) been there, done
that - now into other things (2) b) got scared (2) one after getting
lost in a solo cross country trip, one right after the introductory
flight lesson - the instructor went through the whole routine including
slow flight, stalls and steep turns!! c) no money/no time (3) d) no
time (1).

Learning to fly requires a tremendous amount of time and effort.
It's a good thing that sport pilot category came along. Even for
licenced pilot who wants to fly often, it's not easy or convenient to
rent a plane. After Rick got his licence, he did not fly for over 6
months because the only local FBO (at that time) required a checkout in
an expensive, difficult to learn newer 172 which broke down quite
often and the only two 'qualifed' instructors were hard to book. He
even had to take a ground school GPS. To get proficient, we had to
drive 1.5hrs to another FBO so that Rick could continue to fly. We also
had to pay renter's insurance.

Flying is still not easy accessible or affordable to many people.
It requires a tremendous amount of commitment to stay active in
aviation. The same goes to any other serious hobbies. Rick and I
used to go scuba diving at least 4 times a year including a liveaboard
trip. We are down to 2 trips a year since owing the plane. Before
each trip, we have to go to the local YMCA's pool to practice and
check out our gear. We go rowing/sculling 4 times a week and would
feel out-of-synch or out-of-shape without rowing for a week. There are
just too many things to do and so little time. Like Jose said, one
can't do everything and people have to prioritize. It would have been
nice if we had learned to fly years ago, but we were busy with
schooling and raising our kid. Later on, we had to cope with the
health problems of our parents. Rick's parents passed away 4 years
ago. If my parents were seriously ill the last few years, there was
no ways that we could pickup any new hobbies let alone something as
intensive as learning to fly.

Hai Longworth

Learning to fly requires a tremendous amount of time and effort.
It's a good thing that sport pilot category came along.

Amen. I have high hopes that sport pilot will save G.A. -- but the
jury is still out on that.

Even for
licenced pilot who wants to fly often, it's not easy or convenient to
rent a plane.

That is very "area-dependent." In our hometown (Racine, WI) renting a
plane was always easy, relatively inexpensive, and almost always
available.

Here in Iowa City we went through a terrible period a few years ago
when there was only ONE plane for rent on the field, which made Mary
getting her ticket real fun. (Imagine having just one plane for rent
in a university town with an area population of over 100K.)

Now, with two full-time flight schools going strong, you can't spit
without hitting an available rental plane here.

Flying is still not easy accessible or affordable to many people.

On the issue of accessibility I will agree with you. We still make
getting into aviation too hard, whether it's because the airport is a
cold and sterile place, or because pilots themselves like to make
flying sound like a death-defying act.

Affordable? Well, you've got to define what you mean by "many people."
There are literally thousands of people living near every airport in
America who could afford to fly, but choose not to. We will need to do
a better job of recruiting these people into aviation, sooner than
later, if we want to have places to land in the future.

Can a single mom (or dad) working at a Kwikee Mart fly their own plane?
Nope. But can the mid-level manager at your local bank, or the
innkeeper at your small local motel? You bet.

And we've got to spread that word! Flying is NOT a hobby that carries
with it a crippling expense that can only be borne by the super rich.
Heck, you can buy an Ercoupe for the price of a Harley-Davidson, and
fly the pants off of it for just a couple of thousand bucks a year --
but few outside of the pilot community seem to know that fact.

It requires a tremendous amount of commitment to stay active in
aviation.

When it's something you love, it's not seen as a commitment (although,
of course it is). I don't fly regularly because I want to -- I fly
regularly because I *need* to.

Just ask Mary what I'm like when I haven't had my "fix" for a week or
two!

:-)

There are
just too many things to do and so little time. Like Jose said, one
can't do everything and people have to prioritize. It would have been
nice if we had learned to fly years ago, but we were busy with
schooling and raising our kid. Later on, we had to cope with the
health problems of our parents. Rick's parents passed away 4 years
ago. If my parents were seriously ill the last few years, there was
no ways that we could pickup any new hobbies let alone something as
intensive as learning to fly.

Well, I can show you the view from the other end of the telescope.
When my mom was ill and dying, back in 1999, I would quite literally
have been unable to be with her without our airplane. As a small
business owner, it would have been completely impossible for me to
drive 5.5 hours each way, week after week. And I *had* to be able to
fly home at a moment's notice, to put out fires.

GA allowed me to spend irreplaceable time with my mom during her hour
of need, *and* take care of business -- something no other form of
transportation could have done.

What we need to do is share more of these kinds of stories with the
non-flying public. People have the mistaken impression that GA is
nothing but a bunch of rich flyboys out playing with their toys, and
this is mostly because we've all done such a terrible job of
communicating the real utility of our airplanes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

Flying is relative expensive in comparison to other hobbies. In
my area, plane rental costs $100-$120/hr. The typical instructor fee is
$40/hr. To learn to fly efficiently, one needs to fly 2 or 3 hrs/week
or 10hrs/month. This means $1500/month. The sport pilot rating will
certainly bring the cost down but it will probably cost few thousand
grands to get the rating. To stay proficient, one should fly at least
once a week. This means at least $600/month.

One does not have to be super rich to fly but one needs to have
some disposable income AND the desire (supported by the family) to
spend a big chunk of it in aviation. One can buy a Ercoupe or a
C150/C152 for less than cost of a new economy car but by the time you
add up the tie-down fee, insurance cost, annual/maintemance cost etc.
and av gas at $3.50-$4/gal, one can easily spend $10K a year.

People are very cost concious when it comes to something that they
do not consider essential to their life. Heck, I just forced Rick to
forego watching CNN & Discovery channel by switching from Family to
Basic Broadcast Cable TV. We saved $35/month. I also disconnected
the second phone line to save $20/month. The total saving will get
pay for av gas for one weekend trip ;-). I was trying to recruit new
members to my rowing club and had a hard time convincing people who had
5-figure salary to spend $300/yr on this great outdoor sport. Then
again, people think that we are so cheap in not having broadband
internet connection and not having a cellphone! I finally broke down
and order a prepaid cellphone for this long trip. The plan we chose
was with Page Plus Cellular (through Verizon) for a monthly cost of
$3/month. I have a $20 prepaid AT&T phone card in my wallet which
still has several hundred minutes after one year.

About the utility of flying, yes, we do visit our friends and
relatives more often ever since owning a plane. However, timewise and
costwise, most of the time it is cheaper and sometimes faster to fly
commercial. We will be flying to Denver to visit our daughter this
weekend. The 3000nm round trip will take probably close to 30hrs. My
estimate operating expense for our C177 is $50/hr. So this will come to
$1500. Last year when we flew to Denver through AA, the round trip
tickets was $170/person. Adding the outrageously expensive parking
cost $19/day at HPN, the total cost was less than $500!

The utility of small plane makes sense when it comes to shorter or
trips with multiple hops. In our last trip,in five days, we visited
4 families in Grand Rapids/Muskegon, MI then flew to Chicago to visit a
sister family and a friend then flew back to Muskegon before flying to
visit my brother's family in Troy on the way back to NY.

It's hard to justify owning a plane or spending $50 just to punch
hole in the sky for an hour. We just have to get people to get hooked
on aviation and they will come up with their own justification. This
is why we try to convince everyone that we know to go up with us for a
fun ride.


Hai Longworth

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

This seemingly innocent incident scared him so badly that he walked into
the FBO, sat down with his instructor, and told him he was through.

New pilot anxiety is pretty common, I suspect. I felt it to a lesser extent
myself for the first couple of hundred hours I flew, and only my extreme
addiction to flying kept me going long enough to get over it. Posters in
r.a.student mention it fairly often, too.

An airplane nut I know quit training without any scary incident to nudge him
out of the cockpit. He said he was filled with dread every time he walked
into the FBO for a lesson; nothing he could put his finger on, just general
fear. Another acquaintence completed his training all the way through the
instrument rating but now never flies. He says the fear he feels takes all
the fun out of it for him; the only reason he finished is that he prides
himself on never quitting anything he starts.

--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Did the same thing 20 years ago. At the time I was going through a divorce,
going to grad school, working full time and chasing skirts. That left
little time for the learning part of flying. One day, during my 7th flight
hour in a C 150II, I did my first power-on stall. Dropped like a rock, saw
terra firma in the windshield, let go of the yoke, recovered, felt moisture
in my pants, and told the instructor: "lets land NOW!"

Didn't go back because the stall maneuver scared the living **** out of me
and I figured I didn't have the spare time to devote to learning to fly
that was required. The only other activity that I had time for back then was
getting laid: it required no instruction or study, but it WAS expensive!

Now I'm older, I have more control of my time and I'm married. I'm spending
alot of time learning to fly and, ironically, I may get divorced because of
it. But I'm pressing on. Now if a maneuver scares me, I do it five times
again. It helps to be older and not have children so that you don't worry
about screwing up their lives if you make a mistake and you can push your
personal envelope with less trepidation because you've lived a decent
portion of life by the time you get to my age.







"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:3gULe.251379$x96.181434@attbi_s72...
Most of our guests at the hotel are not pilots. It's simply a matter of
numbers -- there are a LOT more non-pilots than there are pilots, and they
need hotel rooms, too. Many of our guests are "wannabes" or aviation
enthusiasts, however. Although we have found many people who are afraid
of
flying, we have yet to meet someone who doesn't like airplanes -- and
those
people are our "bread & butter."

An amazing number of guests tell me that they have taken flight lessons,
but
quit flying for one reason or another. I have never been able to
understand
this phenomenon, since -- after the first lesson -- I was hopelessly
hooked.
I would have done anything to finish getting my ticket (and did go so far
as
selling my blood plasma for flight money) -- so the concept of quitting
just
never made sense to me. I always inquire about their reasons for
quitting,
and I often hear the same old explanations (money, time, kids, wives,
etc.) -- but I often sensed that there was more to the story than they
were
telling.

I've often suspected that these near-pilots had lived through some
life-changing event, or had been badly scared during flight training. I
simply couldn't fathom what else could cause someone to simply jump off
the
horse and walk away from it, forever -- but I had never been able to coax
the story out of any of these "almost-pilots." The macho, gung-ho
attitude
that seems to envelope aviation seemed to preclude ever finding anyone who
could admit (perhaps even to themselves) what had happened to them.

Until a few days ago. As many of our guests do, this fellow was hanging
around the lobby, studying all the gizmos, gadgets, books, models and
memorabilia that have spread like lichen all over the place in the last
three years. As is my wont, I struck up a conversation with the guy, and
we
casually discussed aviation and airplanes for a few minutes.

It soon became obvious that this guy knew way more about flying than our
average "wannabe" guest. Sure enough, upon inquiring, he admitted taking
18
hours of instruction, and he had several hours of post-solo flight time
under his belt -- before he quit.

Maybe it was the relaxed nature of the setting, or perhaps it was the fact
that he was on vacation and simply let his guard down, but when I asked
him
why he had quit (as I ask EVERYONE who tells me they had stopped flying),
he
actually told me truthfully and sincerely what had happened.

It seems he had just soloed a week earlier, and was out practicing touch
and
goes on his own. There was a bit of a cross wind -- nothing bad -- which
apparently increased while he was working the pattern. On his last
take-off, when he rotated the cross wind kicked up and carried him out
over
the adjacent bean field, and in his confusion he found himself sinking
toward the beans.

In a panic, he luckily overcame the urge to simply pull the yoke back
into
his belly, and pushed the nose over. Doing so gained some speed, and he
climbed out normally. He then came around and landed with some
difficulty,
but without incident.

This seemingly innocent incident scared him so badly that he walked into
the
FBO, sat down with his instructor, and told him he was through.

His instructor asked him what happened, told him that what he had
experienced was easily countered with good technique, told him he had done
well and acted properly, and immediately booked him for a few more dual
lessons.

To no avail. This guy was so taken aback by his brush with disaster that
he
just couldn't get into flying anymore. He did fly a couple of more times
with his instructor, but he could never get back in the saddle. He quit
altogether.

That was over ten years ago. When I encouraged him to try again, and told
him that it was never too late to get back into flying, he wistfully but
firmly replied that it would never happen.

At last -- I've *finally* found someone who could explain what had
happened
to foil their dreams of flight. I've never, ever been able to understand
this all-to-common occurrence -- and there are other good reasons to quit
flying, for sure -- but I have often wondered if this kind of scare during
training isn't happening more often than we know about?

(And before you dismiss a drifting take-off as being non-life-threatening,
see: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CHI05FA080&rpt=p This is an
accident that happened in nearby West Union, Iowa, earlier this summer,
when
a low-time pilot in a Cherokee 235 drifted off the runway centerline,
bounced in the weeds, flipped the plane, and killed himself and his two
passengers.)

It was with a heavy heart and a feeling of dismay that I bid our guest
farewell. Perhaps it was for the best that he quit flying, but I couldn't
help but think that he had given up too soon, and that with a little extra
guidance he could have made a good pilot.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:3gULe.251379$x96.181434@attbi_s72...
...snip...
An amazing number of guests tell me that they have taken flight lessons,
but quit flying for one reason or another. I have never been able to
understand this phenomenon, since -- after the first lesson -- I was
hopelessly hooked.

1. For most people, you have to hook at least *two* people.

If I spend two or three grand on *my* golf, that may not be a big deal, but
if I spend ten or twenty grand a year on *my* flying, that won't leave a
whole lot for *her*, ... so it is going to be ten or twenty grand, it
better be on *our* flying. Otherwise, its going to have to be those same
ten or twenty grand on *our* boat (not bad), or *our* cruises (gag) or *our*
trips to her Mother's (barf).

I would have done anything to finish getting my ticket (and did go so far
as selling my blood plasma for flight money) -- so the concept of quitting
just never made sense to me. I always inquire about their reasons for
quitting, and I often hear the same old explanations (money, time, kids,
wives, etc.) -- but I often sensed that there was more to the story than
they were telling.

I've often suspected that these near-pilots had lived through some
life-changing event,

2. For many, that life-changing event may be as simple as discovering how
much work piloting really was... not just the learning regimen, but the
actual physical and mental requirements of safely getting and keeping the
craft in the air and back down onto the ground. For some people's mental
makeup, the required piloting effort leaves little room left over for the
"enjoyment" part of flight.



....snip...

Until a few days ago. ...snip...

It seems he had just soloed a week earlier, and was out practicing touch
and goes on his own. There was a bit of a cross wind -- nothing bad --
which apparently increased while he was working the pattern. On his last
take-off, when he rotated the cross wind kicked up and carried him out
over the adjacent bean field, and in his confusion he found himself
sinking toward the beans.

In a panic, he luckily overcame the urge to simply pull the yoke back
into his belly, and pushed the nose over. Doing so gained some speed,
and he climbed out normally. He then came around and landed with some
difficulty, but without incident.

This seemingly innocent incident scared him so badly that he walked into
the FBO, sat down with his instructor, and told him he was through.

His instructor asked him what happened, told him that what he had
experienced was easily countered with good technique, told him he had done
well and acted properly, and immediately booked him for a few more dual
lessons.

To no avail. This guy was so taken aback by his brush with disaster that
he just couldn't get into flying anymore.


3. This is fear of failure, not so much fear of flying. People have
near-brushes with death in a car all the time, and they go back driving....

But, as has been argued in these forums many times, we are okay with it
because a non-flight accident is *probably* going to be "someone else's"
fault. A flight accident is *probably* going to be "our" fault...

Perhaps some can't stand that thought?


I will share my own feelings. I am hooked on flying.

I am pretty sure that I am okay with item 3. I am not bad on item 2, though
not as good as I had hoped I might be. But right now I have absolutely no
chance with item 1.

Can 1 and 2 conspire to make me walk away from piloting? Unfortunately:
perhaps.... but I am trying very hard to avoid it. So far: successfully.

Icebound wrote:
If I spend two or three grand on *my* golf, that may not be a big
deal, but
if I spend ten or twenty grand a year on *my* flying, that won't leave a
whole lot for *her*, ... so it is going to be ten or twenty grand, it
better be on *our* flying. Otherwise, its going to have to be those same
ten or twenty grand on *our* boat (not bad), or *our* cruises (gag) or *our*
trips to her Mother's (barf).

guys, you do realize that getting married, having kids,
etc. is actually *optional* ?

:-)

--Sylvain

Sylvain wrote:

guys,Â*Â*youÂ*doÂ*realizeÂ*thatÂ*gettingÂ*married, Â*Â*havingÂ*kids,
etc. is actually optional ?


No more than flying is.

- Andrew

I was a skydiver before I was a pilot. Every time I met an
ex-skydiver, I asked why he quit. I couldn't imagine quitting. Like
you, I always figured there was an answer - a story. Only sometimes
there is no story. I'm an ex-skydiver now. I never really intended to
quit - but it's been years since I made a jump.

Sure, I've had one surgery on my right ankle and two on my left, and
when I offer that as a reason people nod - but I was making demo jumps
into a racetrack and closing 13th on a 16-way diamond while recovering
from the last of those surgeries. I know people a lot more injured
than I am who are still jumping. The truth is that I had done enough,
and made enough jumps, that the incremental value of one more never
seemed to be worth it. I miss it - but not badly enough to take the
time out to do it.

I miss flying my glider too. In fact, I miss flying gliders in
general. I never intentionally quit doing that either - but I've flown
maybe three hours in the last two years. I miss it - but not badly
enough to take the time out to do it any more often. I only flew a
trike once, but I wish I could do that more often. I flew and landed a
taildragger for the first time in over a year this weekend, and I
realized I missed that too. And I still think about that gyroplane I
flew - and about the floatplane I didn't. So much to do, so little
time. I finally found time to get my SCUBA ticket and go spearfishing
and see the wrecks. I still haven't found time for a motorcycle. I
just CAN'T do everything. I keep thinking about getting that balloon
rating, but I can't find the time. Maybe I could have found the time
for the motorcycle or the balloon - but something else would have to
go. I fly A LOT - over 180 hours so far this year, and it's still
August - but most of that is Angel Flights, business trips, vacation
trips (where the primary purpose of the flight is to get to a
destination rather than just enjoy the scenery), and instruction. I
totaled up all my hours spent just flying around, getting hundred
dollar burgers and such - and I came up in single digits. What do I
give up?

I'll tell you what I've given up. I've been fishing maybe half a dozen
times this century, and hunting only once. I really enjoy both when I
do, but there is never enough time. I haven't been camping anywhere
other than an airport in a decade, and I used to love spending time in
the woods. I don't own a boat anymore - and I used to love spending
time on the river. Still do, when I get the chance.

I'm single. My girlfriend also flies and scuba dives. I very rarely
work weekends, and rarely work late enough in the evenings that I can't
go flying or work on my airplane. I have WAY more free time than most
people, WAY fewer responsibilities, and probably quite a bit more
disposable income. And there's still not near enough time to do all
the things I want to do. What about the people who are married and
have kids? Honestly, I don't know how they do it. Mostly they don't.

Owning an airplane is expensive. Flying and maintaining it is
time-consuming. Most pilots I know are married to women who don't much
care to fly. Going camping and fishing with the kids. Working around
the house. Buying jewelry (most women won't consider an air
compressor, welding rig, or rivet gun acceptable birthday presents).
Money, time, wives, kids - those are the real story. What you ran into
is the exception.

Michael

Money, time, wives, kids - those are the real story. What you ran into
is the exception.

It's funny -- you described my life almost perfectly (I.E.: Kids, business,
wife, billion-hour work-weeks, no time) -- yet we fly a couple of times per
week. (Amazingly, despite everything, I've flown around 50 hours in the
last 11 weeks, which is some kind of a record for me.)

It's all about priorities. Would I like to spend more time camping? Would
owning a boat be kinda fun? Would I enjoy a new motorcycle (mine is 19
years old)?

Yep. But flying is *life*, man -- everything else is just a hobby.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"