MoGas users: Ethanol replacing MTBE

"mike regish" wrote

But here I am on a beautiful Sunday morning typing away instead of flying
away. This is a real double whammy for me. Either the rising prices OR the
ethanol thing I could probably absorb, but both together is a real killer.

Step one. Find an old 6 wheel oil or gas tanker truck, and get your CDL
with the H endorsement.

Step two. Drive to where there is un-doctored gas for sale, and buy a
tanker full of it. You now have your gas needs for the next year taken care
of, and will save enough money to have bought the tanker.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

"mike regish" wrote


But here I am on a beautiful Sunday morning typing away instead of flying
away. This is a real double whammy for me. Either the rising prices OR the
ethanol thing I could probably absorb, but both together is a real killer.


Step one. Find an old 6 wheel oil or gas tanker truck, and get your CDL
with the H endorsement.

Step two. Drive to where there is un-doctored gas for sale, and buy a
tanker full of it. You now have your gas needs for the next year taken care
of, and will save enough money to have bought the tanker.

Step Three. Find a place to park a tanker.

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Morgans wrote:

"mike regish" wrote


But here I am on a beautiful Sunday morning typing away instead of flying
away. This is a real double whammy for me. Either the rising prices OR
the
ethanol thing I could probably absorb, but both together is a real
killer.


Step one. Find an old 6 wheel oil or gas tanker truck, and get your CDL
with the H endorsement.

Step two. Drive to where there is un-doctored gas for sale, and buy a
tanker full of it. You now have your gas needs for the next year taken
care of, and will save enough money to have bought the tanker.

Step Three. Find a place to park a tanker.

....Such that it will still be there the next morning

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:35:33 -0400, John wrote:
snip
Many or most aircraft mogas STCs prohibit gasoline containing ethanol
due to its tendency to attack certain seals, gaskets, and parts in
aircraft fuel tanks, fuel systems, and engines. So for those of you who
use motor fuel in airplanes, is the lack of motor gasoline that doesn't
contain ethanol becoming a problem?


By the way ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline. Enjoy!

I think it's 60% less by volume, but it is clean burning.
If cars can be modified to use ethanol and the team that shows up at
Oshkosh each year burns ethanol, what would it take to convert an
airplane to use fuel with ethanol? I realize on mine with bladder
tanks it might be considerable, OTOH on mine it's not a problem as the
compression is too high to get an autogas STC anyway.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I think it's 60% less by volume, but it is clean burning.

How much gas does it take to run the farm equipment to generate the corn
in the first place?

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Tue, 02 May 2006 21:10:36 GMT, Jose
wrote:

I think it's 60% less by volume, but it is clean burning.

How much gas does it take to run the farm equipment to generate the corn
in the first place?

It depends on whos figures/studies and results you are willing to
believe. There is a tremendous amount of information out there, in
libraries, text books, and on the Internet and there is less agreement
in it than with the causes of global warming.

"Near as I can tell" it takes the equivalent of one gallon of ethanol
through the growth, harvest, and production cycle to produce roughly
a gallon and a half of product. That is a very small, net energy gain
and far from putting ethanol into a economically competitive position
as an alternative fuel regardless of claims. Also the entire chain is
heavily subsidized along with tax breaks which makes some of the
figures even more suspect.

You can spend hours looking over the results of studies that show
everything from about a 25 to 30% net energy loss to a very large net
energy gain, but nothing about the parameters used in those studies
and the studies mean nothing unless you can see what they took into
consideration. Having raised corn and still owning a small farm which
I rent out, I can say with certainty the study that showed a large net
energy gain had to have left out a lot of items in the cycle that use
a lot of energy. Corn is heavily dependent on growing conditions as
well as herbicides and pesticides. Dry years and wet years make for
lean years. It also takes a lot out of the soil which has to recover
several years before the next crop of corn.

But is it clean burning... wait... I said that before, but it is clean
burning. Actually it'll clean out an engine that's pretty badly
carboned up.

I do think is it a better choice in most cases than MTBE, but
unfortunately not when used in aircraft systems.

In Michigan we have the added problem that they no longer have to
place stickers on the pumps telling what's in the gas. The stickers
only state that the gas meets such and such a standard which may or
may not include ethanol. I believe Michigan has used ethanol from the
"get-go" and not MTBE as we've had Gasohol since the 70's. It took off
in the 70's but a number of the producers went under shortly after the
gas prices went back down. I know of no processes that were turning
in a net energy gain back then.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



Jose

Man, talk about thread drift!

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

("Roger" wrote)
Man, talk about thread drift!


Isn't that what the piece of yaw string up on the monitor is for? :-)


Montblack

One thing I predict that will happen after this MTBE to Ethanol
conversion, is that it'll make ethanol free gas *more* available to
areas not required to have oxygenated gasoline. Basically in areas
where CO pollution level is low. (see
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/oxy2.html)

The reason is simple economics. Those metro areas where ethanol is
mandated either by federal regulation or state law have put a great
demand on ethanal, causing its (already subsidized) wholesale price to
exceed gasoline by more than 50c a gallon. Because ethanol must be
blended into gasoline at the terminal facility, no oil company in their
right mind will try to blend ethanol into gasoline unless it's
absolutely mandated.

For states who are contemplating ethanol blending laws this market
phenomenon should give them pause. In the long run it'll also pierce
the fallacy of ethanol being a practical replacement for gasoline in
this country. Too bad it will take the suffering of about 1/4 of the
country to make this happen.


John wrote:
To those who fly with STCs for motor fuel instead of avgas, is the
phase-out of MTBE affecting you? The federal government hasn't banned
MTBE outright (some individual states have) but will not protect oil
companies from MTBE lawsuits so MTBE is being phased out by next week in
most places. MTBE isn't the issue here, but ethanol is. Ethanol will
be replacing MTBE as an oxygenate and is also being promoted as a
(heavily subsidized) renewable energy mixed with gasoline. MTBE is
under political attack because it has been found in ground water where
gasoline has leaked from tanks.

(Apparently gasoline, benzene, toluene, naphthalene, ethanol, and other
pump gasoline ingredients don't bother people as much when they leak
from the same gasoline tanks, but that is understandable since the human
body can smell or taste MTBE in fare more quantities in drinking water
than these other carcinogenic contaminants.)

Many or most aircraft mogas STCs prohibit gasoline containing ethanol
due to its tendency to attack certain seals, gaskets, and parts in
aircraft fuel tanks, fuel systems, and engines. So for those of you who
use motor fuel in airplanes, is the lack of motor gasoline that doesn't
contain ethanol becoming a problem?

By the way ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline. Enjoy!