How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?

Mxsmanic wrote:

Unfortunately, some B airspaces seem to be much more complex, and
looking on the chart I can't figure out where they start and end.

Generically speaking:

If you look closely, you'll see multiple rings from several airports, so
the overall airspace area might not be round, but it will be made up of
intersecting circles. In that case, you'd use several navaids, and
continually establish your position. Going around the space, I'll often
pick one or two easy to use points outside the space and fly to them,
safely taking me around the space.

Remember, you only care about the boundry you're near. G

For example, look at the terminal chart for KLAX. Some of the class B
boundaries are marked, such as SMO 252° or VNY 220° at the western
extremity. But then there's a northern border that isn't marked at
all. I see water, a building, and Griffith Park observatory nearby,
but that's it.

I don't have that chart, but I's simply give a bit of extra cushion, or
get clearance.

Yes, I could plan carefully in advance. But then, if anything changes
my route, all the planning goes out the window, and I'm back to
looking at the chart.

All addressed in training and ongoing practice. G


Maybe. I suppose if you can pick and choose your route, you can find
one with lots of landmarks to use. But can you do that when you are
working towards a license?

Not only "can you", but you must! G Training cross countries are
chosen, planned and flown by the student.


If I'm flying near, over, or under controlled airspace, I'll at least
monitor the frequency, and call if I'm near.

If you are flying through a VFR corridor that requires no ATC contact
(see the KSAN terminal chart, which has such a corridor and explicitly
says that no contact is required), do you routinely talk to ATC,
anyway?

If I'm obviously clear, no, but I usually will monitor them. I use
flight following as often as I can when flying VFR, so I'm usually on
with SOMEBODY. In this example case "somebody" would usually be "them".
If I'm flying a dedicated VFR corridor, there's really no reason to
bother ATC. Since VFR corridors are in very busy airspace, the
controllers are going to be busy enough without me. G

What do you request from them?

Whatever I need, depending on the situation at hand. I take pride and
put a lot of thought and effort into my ATC contacts, so I'm rarely
denied. In fact, I can't remember my last ATC request that was denied,
and I deal with the NY & BOS folks often.


If the space is completely restricted, why poke at the beast? You'd
simply give it a reasonable, without-a-doubt cushion while passing by.

If there is space to do that.

With proper planning, there's ALWAYS space, or you don't do it. G

Remember, ALTITUDE is a very accurate tool to clear airspace. If you're
over or under a certain airspace, the horizontal component of your
location gains a bit of wiggle room.

Thorough pre-planning, including what-ifs and alternate routes and
airports, make it all go well and usually make in-flight decisions easy.
"Kicking the tires and lighting the fires" can drastically increase
in-flight workload. Experience and training teaches a good pilot what
degree of planning is necessary for the particular flight at hand.

Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:

The expired chart offer still stands... G

Postage overseas is expensive.

It's not so bad, so keep it in mind. I can only wallpaper so many walls
with old charts...

B A R R Y writes:

It's not so bad, so keep it in mind. I can only wallpaper so many walls
with old charts...

Just out of curiosity, how much do new charts cost, and how many do
you regularly replace as they expire?

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how much do new charts cost, and how many do
you regularly replace as they expire?

about 8 bucks; and I religiously replace the one where I fly regularly;
but there are other options: I started using the 'Air Chart Systems'
which is pretty neat; you get an atlas with all the sectional for the
western half (or eastern half) of the country, and regular cumulative
updates in the mail; when planning a flight I look at the latest
update to see what changed if anything along the route I want to
fly and I am set. I buy the terminal charts and AF/D separately though.

--Sylvain

apx $8US, and repalced twice a year
BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
B A R R Y writes:

It's not so bad, so keep it in mind. I can only wallpaper so many walls
with old charts...

Just out of curiosity, how much do new charts cost, and how many do
you regularly replace as they expire?

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:

It's not so bad, so keep it in mind. I can only wallpaper so many walls
with old charts...

Just out of curiosity, how much do new charts cost, and how many do
you regularly replace as they expire?

They range ~ $4 to $8. I average ~ $15/mo on charts and documentation.
I use government stuff, not the more expensive, value added
aftermarket information. I subscribe to VFR sectionals, WAC, IFR
charts, and plates for the northeastern USA. Avshop / Leftse.at mails
me books and charts as new versions are published. If I'm leaving the
area of my typical coverage, I'll get the correct stuff at the time I
need it.

We keep our GPS 196 updated, so frequencies and other data are easily
available in-flight from the unit.

Some items, like AF/D's and instrument stuff expire every 56 days, but
they're in the ~$4 range. VFR Sectionals are good for around 6 months
and cost around $8.

A VFR pilot really only "needs" current sectionals, and an AF/D for the
area(s) he or she is flying in. They barely need that if they're just
doing sightseeing hops around the local area.

I usually give my expired stuff to students, kids, and other interested
parties. A kid in my neighborhood literally WORE OUT an old chart I
gave him, carrying it around and reading it. He can now quiz me on IFR
chart symbols. G I think we have a duty to pass along our passions.
I'll never be a test pilot or an astronaut, but you never know about
him... G

Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:


The expired chart offer still stands... G


Postage overseas is expensive.

Yeah, it might cost a dollar to mail a chart to Frogland.

Mxsmanic wrote:
I see tons of restricted areas, MOAs, Class B, C, D, E airspace, and
the like on charts, but no clear indication of how to locate the
boundaries of these areas other than by pure guesstimate based on
looking at the chart. On rare occasions I see a radial noted as the
boundary of an area, or a radius, but in many cases there is nothing.
How in the world are you supposed to know when you are inside or
outside one of these areas, if you are not flying miles away from
them?

Yes, GPS units and some other devices may provide real-time display of
one's position with these areas superimposed, but such devices have
not always been available.

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I'm assuming your are talking about cross country flights. Most pilots
get to know their local area really well without a map. If you are
flying vfr you should be identifying visual checkpoints constantly and
if you are on a X/C flight you should be flying your flight plan, even
if you don't file. You need to know where you are and where you are
headed at all times. If it gets too hazy to identify ground references
than you are probably in marginal vfr or worse. If you want to fly
higher than the turkey vultures I suggest you buy a really good gps and
keep the thing updated. Or better yet spend the time and money and get
an ifr rating and go play at altitude with ATC. The thing that
concerns me most when I fly X/C vfr is the TFR's that pop up suddenly,
especially around election time. You can get a briefing and 10 minutes
later the Pres. or VP or some Senator decides to change his destination
to yours, and if you're not talking to somebody to let you know what's
going on.., well good luck. I use to fly more vfr X/C's but not
anymore. Now I just file ifr, go high and enjoy the fuel savings.

FlynCatfish

flyncatfish writes:

The thing that
concerns me most when I fly X/C vfr is the TFR's that pop up suddenly,
especially around election time. You can get a briefing and 10 minutes
later the Pres. or VP or some Senator decides to change his destination
to yours, and if you're not talking to somebody to let you know what's
going on.., well good luck.

I've noticed that. One more thing to worry about. People are afraid
of their own shadows in the U.S. these days.

I use to fly more vfr X/C's but not anymore.

Because ... ?

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you look at the chart
you look at the ground
you navigate by pilotage

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
I see tons of restricted areas, MOAs, Class B, C, D, E airspace, and
the like on charts, but no clear indication of how to locate the
boundaries of these areas other than by pure guesstimate based on
looking at the chart. On rare occasions I see a radial noted as the
boundary of an area, or a radius, but in many cases there is nothing.
How in the world are you supposed to know when you are inside or
outside one of these areas, if you are not flying miles away from
them?

Yes, GPS units and some other devices may provide real-time display of
one's position with these areas superimposed, but such devices have
not always been available.

--
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