Great aviation museum

It might have been possible to build a scaffold up to the cockpit without
too much difficulty or damage. The thing was huge.

Have you ever looked at a control tower? They all have wheelchair accessible
elevators and access, yet there are likely few, if any wheelchair dependent
controllers. How much money was spent on this?

Reminds me of a time when I was coming back into the States from an overseas
deployment for the Air Force, with a bout of giardia (fevers, chills, and
frequent nasty episodes of particularly foul diarrhea).

After enduring this for niine hours over the ocean, I was in the home
stretch, waiting in Dulles for the commuter flight back to Wisconsin. The
waiting area looks like Ellis Island.

As we're finally getting ready to board, a large lady in a scooter rolls to
the front of the line. In order to accomodate her, the ground crew brings
out a complex folding ramp. After around 20 minutes, they realize that they
can not open the ramp without moving the plane, ground equipment, baggage
carts, etc.

A tug shows up with a tow bar, and they push the plane back four feet, after
shuffling all of the ground equipment. This was followed by another twenty
minutes of moving the ramp around, only to realize that they still had to
move the plane again! It looked like a Keystone Cops routine.

I, on the other hand, was nead to death, with a fever, and debating to run
back to the terminal to use the bathroom again.

Finally, the ground crew gives up, and we board the plane, only to have the
lady walk up the three steps as well as any other healthy person. In other
words, the ground crew and passengers were all inconvenienced by this, and
she could have walked on board with the rest of us! You can imagine all of
the dirty looks she got from the other pax!

I see this all the time- people want handicapped stickers when they don't
want to walk ten more feet to go into the Walmart, when in fact they should
be walking more to lose weight and get stronger.

It' no wonder that America is a country of overweight and out of shape
individuals. Just make a trip to Europe some time to see the difference (MX
excluded).

Margy Natalie wrote:
Don't worry about the Enola Gay, no one will touch it. It even has a
plastic barrier so you shouldn't be able to throw coke bottles with
paint in them at her again.

Margy


Someone did that?! Were they arrested and or shot?

Viperdoc wrote:

Finally, the ground crew gives up, and we board the plane, only to have
the lady walk up the three steps as well as any other healthy person. In
other words, the ground crew and passengers were all inconvenienced by
this, and she could have walked on board with the rest of us! You can
imagine all of the dirty looks she got from the other pax!

scapegoating again: it is so convenient to blame that woman: everybody,
including that lady, who probably didn't enjoy being singled out in
such a way, were all inconvenience by the *incompetence* of
the crew; they most probably knew in advance -- they had to, the
lady wouldn't have been allowed to board at all otherwise -- about
the handicapped lady yet -- from your description -- did nothing
ahead of time to accomodate her. The fact that she might or might not
have been able to walk the few steps is irrelevant actually (she
may not have been given the choice; e.g., when being pushed in
a wheelchair in Heathrow, I was yelled at by the
security because I tried to get out of it to speed up the process);

Note that the same happens regularly with these so called wheelchair
accessible buses, which elevator either doesn't work, or is not
operated correctly by the driver who more often than not doesn't
know how to do it. A procedure that should not take more than 2mn
can take hours when sufficiently mishandled. The end user, not having
any control over this, finds himself singled out as the source of
the problem when in fact the personnel doesn't do its job.

The dirty looks should have been directed at the crew. But then
again, handicapism is still so widely spread that it apparently
clouded the judgment of the passengers, yourself included.

--Sylvain

The point is that she was not handicapped, and walked perfectly well. She
used the scooter as a matter of convenience, not necessity.

She easily could have said she was capable of walking up the three stairs
without difficulty, which she did. It would have saved everyone a lot of
trouble and inconvenience. This is not the fault of the crew- it is about
taking responsibility.

Viperdoc wrote:

The point is that she was not handicapped, and walked perfectly well. She
used the scooter as a matter of convenience, not necessity.

how the heck do you know that? Are you a MD? do you have the proper
qualifications? are you deeply familiar with her medical records? have
you personally examined her?

For many who can walk, a wheelchair in an airport is not a matter
of convenience but of necessity: airports are *vast*, and require
walking long distances which can be far in excess to someone's
ability; whether due to a visible or non visible disability (e.g.,
heart problems, pain, etc.).

She easily could have said she was capable of walking up the three stairs
without difficulty, which she did.

As I explained in the previous email, you do not know that either; She
might very well have said it. Once sitted in a wheelchair, nobody listens
to you, it is as if you no longer exist. I have found myself in a similar
situation in an airport (Heathrow) where I was explicitly *forbidden* to
leave the wheelchair by security even though it would have saved a
considerable amount of time to myself and everybody else.

It would have saved everyone a lot of
trouble and inconvenience. This is not the fault of the crew- it is about
taking responsibility.

From your description, the crew messed up, they were grossly incompetent.
That's what inconvenienced you.

If it makes you feel better to blame the victim, go ahead. After all, gimps
are the last minority you can scapegoat with impunity nowdays, might as
well enjoy it while it lasts.

--Sylvain

As a matter of fact, I am an MD, and specialize in orthopaedics. So yes, I
am qualified to talk about her gait. Plus, she was in a scooter, not a wheel
chair, and yes, she walked up the stairs and down the aisle without any
assistance at all.

This was not the fault of the crew, who did their best. She could have
averted all of the trouble by telling people she didn't need the assistance.

It is about taking responsibility- just like the people I see who walk just
fine, but request handicapped stickers simply for a matter of convenience.

I am very sensitive to the needs of the handicapped, since I see and work
with them on a daily basis. Get the chip of your shoulder.

Viperdoc wrote:

As a matter of fact, I am an MD, and specialize in orthopaedics. So yes, I
am qualified to talk about her gait.

Oh I see. So you know things by osmosis. You can make instant diagnosis
by just looking at someone from a distance. Cool.

Oh, and I am a doctor too by the way, and it is not just a courtesy
title common in your profession. I don't believe however that it gives
me instant competency in any subject.

Plus, she was in a scooter, not a
wheel chair, and yes, she walked up the stairs and down the aisle without
any assistance at all.

Again, reread my message. You do not know anything about her condition;
you do not know anything about the actual circumstances.

This was not the fault of the crew, who did their best.

They indeed made a big show at it. Incompetent people tend to do that.

I am very sensitive to the needs of the handicapped,

...and your very best friend is a physically challenged (tm) person, I bet.

Get the chip of your shoulder.

yep, all gimps have chips on their shoulders. That's the root of all
their problems. Everybody knows that.

--Sylvain

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:07:12 -0700, Sylvain wrote:

Viperdoc wrote:

The point is that she was not handicapped, and walked perfectly well. She
used the scooter as a matter of convenience, not necessity.

how the heck do you know that? Are you a MD? do you have the proper
qualifications? are you deeply familiar with her medical records? have
you personally examined her?

For many who can walk, a wheelchair in an airport is not a matter
of convenience but of necessity: airports are *vast*, and require
walking long distances which can be far in excess to someone's
ability; whether due to a visible or non visible disability (e.g.,
heart problems, pain, etc.).

She easily could have said she was capable of walking up the three stairs
without difficulty, which she did.

As I explained in the previous email, you do not know that either; She
might very well have said it. Once sitted in a wheelchair, nobody listens
to you, it is as if you no longer exist. I have found myself in a similar
situation in an airport (Heathrow) where I was explicitly *forbidden* to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
leave the wheelchair by security even though it would have saved a
considerable amount of time to myself and everybody else.

It would have saved everyone a lot of
trouble and inconvenience. This is not the fault of the crew- it is about
taking responsibility.

From your description, the crew messed up, they were grossly incompetent.
That's what inconvenienced you.

If it makes you feel better to blame the victim, go ahead. After all, gimps
are the last minority you can scapegoat with impunity nowdays, might as
well enjoy it while it lasts.

--Sylvain

ahhh so now we find out why you have such a nonsense position on
wheelchairs. you are in one.
I suppose you'd expect the world to bend to a desire to take up
parachuting or scuba diving as well.
sad to say it is called a disability because it disables you from
undertaking some activities.

try not to wear your heart on your shoulder all the time. it makes you
a pain in the arse to people who have had nothing to do with your
disablement.

Stealth Pilot
Australia
(who knows a few people in wheelchairs that are *never* pains in the
arse)

In article ,
Sylvain wrote:

Oh, and I am a doctor too by the way,

What kind? MD or PhD? What field?
There are different qualifications, so you need to be specific.
For all we know, you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

"Viperdoc" wrote:
As a matter of fact, I am an MD, and specialize in orthopaedics.

On a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is excruciating pain that causes collapse,
what level of pain was the woman in when she walked those 3 steps, and how
does one determine such a thing?