U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/1/03 3:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I wonder what the rational was for 25 missions in B-52's? Buff driver can
you clarify?

Its not platform specific, but theater and MAJCOM specific. Ten sorties for
an
AM seems to be the norm in most conflicts, but CENTCOM used a "point system"
for Operation SOUTHERN WATCH where I believe you would have had to fly 15
sorties for an AM. My guess for Vietnam was that PACOM (or perhaps since
B-52s
were never "chopped" to PACOM, it was SAC's rule) decided that Rolling
Thunder,
Freedom Porch and other air operations south of 20 latitude needed 25 sorties
for an AM due to the relatively low risk. I don't know...Ed?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"


I wonder how they arrived at those numbers. If we needed 5 for an AM and you
needed 25 does this mean you had 1/5 the losses per sortie relative to the ETO?
Interesting to know how they would have figured it out.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: "= Vox Populi ©" Vox Populi ©"
Date: 9/2/03 7:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Well then, that's the point ain't it? Some people don't actually "earn" the
medals.

And some do with their lives. The vast majority were well earned and well
deserved. In my time in the military I never knew of a single award that was
not earned, often the hard way. And many of these awards now lie on the chests
of those stiill buried in foreign soil.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: vincent Brannigan
Date: 9/2/03 8:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



"= Vox Populi ©" wrote:

Does getting lost, crashing your vehicle, being taken prisoner without
firing a
shot,
spending time in a 1st class medical hospital, and getting "rescued" from
that
unarmed,
unguarded hospital deserve a "bronze star" ?

Or does that denigrate and lessen the value, perceived or real, of those
other
soldiers
throughout many wars who actually did "earn" the BS?

How about the MOH?

7 December 1941 - *KIDD, ISAAC CAMPBELL, Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy

Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and
complete
disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor, by
Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. Rear Adm. Kidd immediately went to the
bridge and, as Commander Battleship Division One, courageously discharged
his
duties as Senior Officer Present Afloat until the U.S.S. Arizona, his
Flagship,
blew up from magazine explosions and a direct bomb hit on the bridge which
resulted in the loss of his life.

7 December 1941 - *VAN VALKENBURGH, FRANKLIN, Captain, U.S. Navy

Citation: For conspicuous devotion to duty, extraordinary courage and
complete
disregard of his own life, during the attack on the Fleet in Pearl Harbor
T.H.,
by Japanese forces on 7 December 1941. As commanding officer of the U.S.S.
Arizona, Capt. Van Valkenburgh gallantly fought his ship until the U.S.S.
Arizona blew up from magazine explosions and a direct bomb hit on the bridge
which
resulted in the loss of his life.


Now these men gave their lives in the service of their country, but it is
certainly
difficult to understand what was particularly personally "heroic" about their
actions. Iprefer to think of it as a award that encapsulated all the hero's
whose
courage is not recorded. Perhaps this award falls in the same category.

Vince


Thanks for bringing reality into what, up until now, has been one of the more
disgusting threads ever on this NG.

..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

Thanks for bringing reality into what, up until now, has been one of the more
disgusting threads ever on this NG.

For which you, Mr. Kramer, should be proud. Congrats!

-Mike (you've definitely earned your "keyboard courage" medal) Marron

Subject: U$ Military Medals meaningless junk ...!
From: "Gene Storey"
Date: 9/2/03 3:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

don't know about fighters, but the Connie crews could only
claim one mission a day, whether you flew 1 sortie or 2. Usually
the mission number would be xxx, then xxx-a, xxx-b, etc, and
flight records wouldn't count the extra sorties in the decoration

Ah the old Missions vs Sorties raises it's ugly head again.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer