$16,619.85

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

As much as we hate government involvement in general, I think it would be
fair to say that the U.S. subsides GA to encourage it's existence.


I spent a lot if time trying to convince skylune that this was simply not
true.

I fly from a privately owned field. He does not qualify for gubmint
subsidies. He's making a profit.

4.3NM away is a class D airport with a 7000' runway and a 5000' crosswind
runway. The big airport spends over three million dollars a year salaries,
maintenance, repairs, etc. They have been trying to attract an airline, but
keep failing. The last air carrier that flew there lasted nine months.

Because there is no airline service there, claims are made that the three
million dollars is supporting GA.

I still cannot fathom how the politicians can continue paying twenty five
people to work at an airport that has no air carrier.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:32:04 +0100, Martin Hotze wrote:

do you have some other 'facts' than somebody's post in r.a.s?

Second place I looked:

http://www.cabairflyingschools.com/d...RICES-2007.pdf

Cessna 172 - £7,255.00 GBP + VAT

$14,480.60 USD

--
Dallas

----
45 hours w/Katana DV20 incl. CFI
about 95 hours ground school
test preparation
some training materials (not really much, IMHO)
membership (similar to AOPA)
landing fees for about 150 landings
totals EUR 6,666.00
according to xe.net (Live rates at 2007.12.30 17:28:04 UTC):
USD 9,827.73

This is a minimum though. I have not come across anybody who has
managed a PPL in 45 hours here in the US. I am sure there are some but
its not usual. Most take between 60 and 70 hrs (that's 50% more than
45 hrs). Bad weather, cancellations etc will quickly add more hours
and in many cases you want to spend extra hours training in a stiff
crosswind for eg.
If the debate is between whether the US or Europe is cheaper for
learning to fly, its a no contest really. Anybody who can afford a
cheap used car in the US can afford to get a PPL in the US.

schrieb:
----
45 hours w/Katana DV20 incl. CFI
about 95 hours ground school
test preparation
some training materials (not really much, IMHO)
membership (similar to AOPA)
landing fees for about 150 landings
totals EUR 6,666.00
according to xe.net (Live rates at 2007.12.30 17:28:04 UTC):
USD 9,827.73

This is a minimum though.

in the US this might be true.

I have not come across anybody who has
managed a PPL in 45 hours here in the US. I am sure there are some but
its not usual.

see, this is one of the differences. :-)
It took me about 5 or 6 months here in Europe besides a full time job.

Most take between 60 and 70 hrs (that's 50% more than
45 hrs). Bad weather, cancellations etc will quickly add more hours
and in many cases you want to spend extra hours training in a stiff
crosswind for eg.
If the debate is between whether the US or Europe is cheaper for
learning to fly, its a no contest really.

the discussion is whether it's cheaper for Europeans to go to the US for
learning to fly. Right now (IMHO) we're about $5K in the US plus
airfare, housing, time, etc. compared to about $10K in Europe.

Anybody who can afford a
cheap used car in the US can afford to get a PPL in the US.

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

#m

Martin Hotze wrote:

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?


I just sold a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, every option except moonroof, excellant
condition, 78,000 miles, for $5,500....
Yes, you can get a very nice used car for $5K........

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

I just sold a 1996 Cadillac DeVille, every option except moonroof, excellant
condition, 78,000 miles, for $5,500....
Yes, you can get a very nice used car for $5K........

My Toyota T100 4x4 Extended cab was just $2500. It needed work to the
tune of 2 AMUs. So, for a total of $4500, I've got an outstanding off-
road (or on) truck that I use every day. It's the Mighty Grape II,
and we use it to haul mogas to our plane.

For just $500 more (here in Iowa), you can learn to fly.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

the discussion is whether it's cheaper for Europeans to go to the US for
learning to fly. Right now (IMHO) we're about $5K in the US plus
airfare, housing, time, etc. compared to about $10K in Europe.


For time building (for an ATP for instance) it makes a lot of sense.
Just for a PPL, I am not sure it does. It would still be a close call
though. You could probably get a PPL for something like $12K flying in
from Europe for a month. The extra 2K would be worth it since the
training in the US is probably a richer experience with so many
airports/airplanes/airspaces and the greater exposure to using English
on the radio.
Getting past the bureaucracy involved to train here might be the main
hurdle..


so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?


Yep, the US is a strange place, teenagers working in departmental
stores can drive swanky BMWs and Mercs here. It only costs a few
hundred dollars a month to hang on to a fancy car.

schrieb:

so a cheap used car sells for about $5K over there?

Yep, the US is a strange place, teenagers working in departmental
stores can drive swanky BMWs and Mercs here. It only costs a few
hundred dollars a month to hang on to a fancy car.


sorry, my emphasis was on the _cheap_. Cheap cars (beaters) can be had
for at least half of the money and they might be good for a year or two
to drive (without much expectations re luxury).

#m

Hi,

In article ,
wrote:
Just for a PPL, I am not sure it does. It would still be a close call
though. You could probably get a PPL for something like $12K flying in
from Europe for a month. The extra 2K would be worth it since the
training in the US is probably a richer experience with so many
airports/airplanes/airspaces and the greater exposure to using English
on the radio.

That may well be the case for a lot of people from *mainland* Europe.
However, I know our instructors often say that people that come back from
the States with a PPL often have a lot less exposure to ATC, airspace and
(most importantly) marginal weather than you would get here in the UK.

Andy

The debate is whether flying in Europe is so astronomically expensive
that it's out of reach for normal people, and specifically if the
prices that "Dallas" found are typical.

I don't think its out of reach in Europe but a person would need to be
more motivated than in the US to take up flying. I certainly would
have thought twice about learning to fly if the costs were 50% higher.
Here in California, I can rent a C-150 wet for $75 per hr (was $65 two
years ago) and there are dozens of scenic airports to go to on a
sunday morning with no landing fees to worry about.