Feds Want to Equipe Gliders With Transponders and Radios

Morgans wrote:

"Eric Greenwell" wrote
This corresponds with the Powersonic chart, so at -10C (15F), you have
a 30% loss of capacity. For winter flying, and spring or fall flying
in places where you can climb to, say, 10,000' agl, it's an important
factor. Especially so, when you know your encoder will likely be using
it's heater, adding 50-150 milliamps to your current drain.

Put a insulated cover around the battery, and the heat of discharge will
keep it warm and the capacity up, unless it is seriously freakin' cold.

Insulating it will keep if from cooling off as quickly, but I'm
skeptical about the amount of self-heating. Do you know how much it is,
or where I can find a reference to it that applies to the batteries we
us? Insulating my battery is difficult due to it's location, so I'd like
to know it's worth the effort before attempting it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

In article ,
WingFlaps wrote:

How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On May 4, 8:37*am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,

*WingFlaps wrote:
How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.



Aha, someone who understands Dopplewho knows!. data from the secondary
sites can fix that problem.

Cheers

In rec.aviation.piloting WingFlaps wrote:
On May 4, 8:37?am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,

?WingFlaps wrote:
How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.



Aha, someone who understands Dopplewho knows!. data from the secondary
sites can fix that problem.

The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:15:03 GMT, wrote in
:



The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.

But decommissioning them, as part of the ADS-B implementation, will
make them moot.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:15:03 GMT, wrote in
:



The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.

But decommissioning them, as part of the ADS-B implementation, will
make them moot.

What is being lost? Primary radar is making a comeback after 2001, not
going away.

On Sat, 03 May 2008 20:15:32 -0400, Jennifer Allen
wrote in :



Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sat, 03 May 2008 23:15:03 GMT, wrote in
:



The FAA radars are what they are.

You can arm wave forever about what they could be, but that isn't going
to change them.

But decommissioning them, as part of the ADS-B implementation, will
make them moot.

What is being lost? Primary radar is making a comeback after 2001, not
going away.

I would enjoy reading supporting documentation for that assertion.


As this message thread refers to painting glider primary targets, it
would seem that post ADS-B, the FAA primary radars will be
decommissioned with the exception of those around the peripheral of
the US, hence my statement above.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a
Decommissioning only the primary radar would result in both cost
avoidance (no upgrades) and maintenance cost-savings. Annual savings
estimates are approximately $30M per year. (Note: For purposes of
national defense, the primary radars around the peripheral of the
United States, would not be decommissioned in the near term).



http://astra.aero/downloads/ABIT/ABI...ting_final.pdf
The FAA envisions decommissioning. more than 300 en route radars. ...



http://www.fcw.com/print/12_23/news/94989-1.html
Radar is an outdated technology, the FAA says. Moving to ADS-B will
let the agency eventually decommission some of the current ground
radars. According to an FAA report, radar is imperfect and sometimes
has trouble distinguishing airplanes from flocks of birds or patches
of rain.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat...ance-broadcast
FAA segment 3 (2015-2020)

ADS-B In equipage will be based on user perceived benefit, but is
expected to be providing increased situational awareness and
efficiency benefits within this segment. Those aircraft who choose to
equip in advance of any mandate will see benefits associated with
preferential routes and specific applications. Limited radar
decommissioning will begin in the time frame with an ultimate goal of
a 50% reduction in the Secondary Surveillance Radar infrastructure.



http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...0-07_Final.pdf
Will there be a back-up system for ADS-B?

Yes, the FAA recognizes that a back-up system is needed in case of
problems with the satellite system. In 2006, a team from the FAA,
industry, and the military performed an analysis, taking into account
such things as the operational capability needed during an outage, the
length of time the back-up system would be expected to operate during
an outage, and any overlap between the back-up and ADS-B that would
result in a vulnerability. The agency adopted the team’s
recommendation to maintain about half the current network of
*secondary* radars as a back-up system in case of a GPS outage.

In article "Morgans" writes:

"Eric Greenwell" wrote
This corresponds with the Powersonic chart, so at -10C (15F), you have a 30%
loss of capacity. For winter flying, and spring or fall flying in places where
you can climb to, say, 10,000' agl, it's an important factor. Especially so,
when you know your encoder will likely be using it's heater, adding 50-150
milliamps to your current drain.

Put a insulated cover around the battery, and the heat of discharge will keep
it warm and the capacity up, unless it is seriously freakin' cold.

With a resistance of a few milliohms, a 1 amp discharge will only give a
few milliwatts of heat. I really doubt the battery will keep itself warm.
(After all warming the battery would consume energy from its stored capacity.)

Alan

On May 4, 11:15*am, wrote:
In rec.aviation.piloting WingFlaps wrote:

On May 4, 8:37?am, Bob Noel
wrote:
In article ,

?WingFlaps wrote:
How slow does a target need to be to be undisplayed -typically? I
would have thought that even a glider is fast (45 knots) compared to
usual clutter.

Don't forget that it's the radial velocity that is detected by skin paint.

Aha, someone who understands Dopplewho knows!. data from the secondary
sites can fix that problem.

The FAA radars are what they are.


I agree

Cheers

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

What is being lost? Primary radar is making a comeback after 2001, not
going away.

I would enjoy reading supporting documentation for that assertion.


As this message thread refers to painting glider primary targets, it
would seem that post ADS-B, the FAA primary radars will be
decommissioned with the exception of those around the peripheral of
the US, hence my statement above.

I doubt that the primary radars in the US will be decommissioned

The air defense systems in the west (WADS) and the one in Rome, NY (NEADS)
have added the capability to take in feeds from domestic radars, including the
FAA enroute radars. This all occured post-9/11. (HI and AK systems also have
been upgraded). Search for Battle Control System Fixed.

Since before 1996, the FAA has been looking to get rid of primary radars.
9/11 was yet another excuse to try to get someone else to pay for the maintenance
and upgrades for NAS radars.


http://www.fcw.com/print/12_23/news/94989-1.html
Radar is an outdated technology, the FAA says. Moving to ADS-B will
let the agency eventually decommission some of the current ground
radars. According to an FAA report, radar is imperfect and sometimes
has trouble distinguishing airplanes from flocks of birds or patches
of rain.

As antiquated as RADAR is, I don't think we can rely on the "bad guys" using
cooperative surv technology like transponders or ADS-B out.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)