funny

On 06 Oct 2003 05:02 PM, Ron Wanttaja posted the following:

Take my airplane, for instance...a Bowers Fly Baby, built by someone
else. It has a dead-stock Continental C-85 powerplant system. System,
not merely an engine. Everything forward of the firewall could be
unbolted and transferred directly to a typical high-wing Piper. Heck,
I think everything FWF on my plane but the duct tape is right from the
Piper parts book. :-)

I believe you will find that particular part number in the Alaskan
supplement to the Piper parts book, right next to the copper RTV anti-
chafe compound.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Barnyard BOb -- wrote:
David Hill wrote:

Lemme see, yep, I though so, it says it right there at the top:
rec.aviation.homebuilt.

What's the point of having this forum, if for not sharing serious info
and advice? On conversions or any other facet of homebuilding? Did I
miss something? Is this a private party? An entertainment center for
surly curmudgeons?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

David,
You claim to have left four years ago because you didn't
like what was going on here and... first shot back, you
loudly whined about the number of Zoom posts. Here
you are whining about me.

I don't think of it so much as whining, as trying to see if it's
possible to have a civil discourse with you. Apparently, it's not.

IMO, you are a control freak
and cannot be pleased unless in charge.

You learned so much by so few posts? Tell you what I've learned about
you, besides the surly curmudgeon part -- you are *way* too sensitive,
dude. Take a chill pill.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
as you exit for another four years, OK?

You wish.

You know, you must be a helluva guy in person, for so many people to put
up with your online persona. But I don't know you, and I don't have to
put up with you.

Bye-bye.

I'll see your bye-bye and raise you one PLONK!

--
David Hill
david at hillREMOVETHISfamily.org
Sautee-Nacoochee, GA, USA

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Treefrog" wrote in message
...
"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message
...

What's so funny about a Soob in a plane?

I don't know.
What?

I do know.... the last Soob powered local plane crashed,
burned and the pilot became another fatality statistic off the
end of runway. Maiden flight Propulsion issues.

I don't know what kind of crap you get sold in the states but over here
(UK), the standard 2.0l turbo Subaru engine kicks out 208Bhp and is very
very very very very reliable. You could prop hang an ultralight with
that
much power!



I am as much pro auto conversion as any person in this group. You are
DREAMING if you think you can rate a 2 liter Soob for 208 HP continuous
output. You are running how many RPM, and how many inches boost to get
that
figure? No sane person would run a motor that hard, and depend on it for
hour after hour.

Give me the figures. RPM and amount of boost.
--
Jim in NC



Oops, my figures were out slightly. The new model produces a little bit more
than 208bhp.

Ok, it ain't going to last at continuous redline but the power is there for
short bursts, e.g. takeoff.

This is the engine specs straight from the factory, I can't find any
information about stock boost pressure.
265bhp @ 6000

It has been known for these engines to be tuned to well over 500bhp (in
fact, I know of an 800bhp Subaru). Obviously you would never run that in an
aircraft but my point is, the stock engine is reliable at 265bhp (or less).
Kevin made a good point though, with all this power, any modifications will
have to be very well engineered. Home made components would most likely be
the breaking point, not the engine.

GEEEEEEE You are getting old if that is the only rise out of you for saying you
sounded like Paul Lamar...I would have thought the ground would have shook.

BFG

Few will believe this....
But, my blood pressure stays flat through all this RAH stuff UNTIL....
somebody says something truly funny. Yep. I can be caught rolling
on the floor at 3, 4, or 5 AM.

I also believe the Mazda would be a good choice but not for the inexperienced.

The crux of the matter is there are few as gifted at Tracy Crooks.

My whole point is that auto engines can be successfully adapted for aircraft
use, not just the Mazda, IF you know what you are doing.

Super humongous... "IF".
And where is the financial responsibility coming from?
Your personal assets ?

No insurance company wants to write a low time pilot, with no time
in type, playing test pilot with a one of a kind homebrew engine.
They'd have to be as nuts as the builder/pilot/engine combo.

I don't believe it
will be significantly cheaper and that is proven by the cost of the many
conversion engines on the market.

Those that believe otherwise are delusional and should not even
be allowed near a wrench, torch or hammer. However, this is where
most of the boos and hisses come from. Yes, I'm speaking in
generalities, but it is GENERALLY TRUE.

It should also not be done by anyone that
doesn't have the knowledge to do the maintenance on the engine, anytime and
anywhere.


Bob Reed

FIRST...
You have to get past the engineering obstacles before you can
even think about a maintenance program. For my money,
the R & D never ends and therefore....
passengers should not be put at risk in this kind of experimenting.
This is an area of risk that insurance companies are loathe to write.

If I'm wrong, show me where.


Barnyard BOb --



Barnyard BOb --

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:19:44 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote:

Geez, Bob.

The guys who are successfully flying auto conversions,
as we speak, are where? Here in RAH? I know of ONE.
All I get is **** from the wannabees.. projecting their brand of
warm fuzziest and what they are gonad do or finish SOME DAY.

Barnyard BOb -- Lamar look alike? Hmmmm.

Hard as this may be to believe, not everyone who owns a homebuilt,
powered by auto conversion or not, knows about or cares about
Recreational Aviation Homebuilt.

Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they don't exist.
There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that the
"in-your-face" intimidating nature of many respondents drives them
away, or makes them reluctant to post.

For the record, the reverend Ron Van der Hart flew a Buick engined
Pawnee for years, saw him at Oshkosh in '95, he sells a video on the
conversion.

Fred Geschwender built PSRU's for big block Fords to be used for
dusting operations. He's gone now but his business continues.

Johnny Lindgren, who now owns Northwest Aero has been selling engines
and PSRU's for years.

Andy Venable flew behind a Mazda engine for years before switching to
an aircraft engine. Why did he switch? Because it froze on him while
taxiing out for takeoff one day. He thinks it may be because he'd
tilted the engine for the installation, which he guesses screwed up
the oil system, eventually.

Speaking of Mazda's, there's Tracy Crook, who's flown a 13B powered
RV4 for five years or more now.

Then there's Jim Stewart in the Stewart S-51 Chevy V-8 powered Mustang
replica.

Belted Air Power makes PSRU's for Chevy V-6's and has been flying
behind a Chevy V-6 powered RV4 for years. Bill Phillips has flown it.

Jan Eggenfellner has been making Subaru auto conversions for at least
6 years and has sold several hundred units.

There was an engineer, a friend of Ron's, who flew behind a Ford
powered BD-4 for a number of years. He died flying a Gyro a few years
ago. His was the voice of reason and articulate examination of auto
conversions.

There's the guy, forget his name but he used to be the force behind
"Hurst" shifters, who modified a Chevy V-8 to be used in Lancair IV's.
It puts out 420 horsepower. He won the inaugural race from Kittyhawk
to Oshkosh flying that airplane. The engine is now being built and
sold in Auburn Maine.

Bruce Frank figures there are about 200 or so owners of V-6 Stol's
some of whom have hundreds of hours on them. Several have over 1,000
and one guy accumulated 2,000.

I have a Mpeg of a guy making his maiden flight in a Subaru powered
Comp Monster down in Florida. He had no problems.

Jerry Schweitzer did a busines building Ford V-6's and has flown to
many airshows to display his V6 Stol and his more recent Ford V-6
powered RV4. I have his video in which he describes the various
modifications he makes on the engine to make it reliable. The video
concludes with him flying around for 15 minutes in the Stol to show it
off.

There are others, they just don't post here.

Do they fail? Of course, so do professionally installed certified
engines. If you do the work yourself, if you are qualified to do so,
you can have a zero time engine that puts out at least 180 horsepower
for about $5,000 to $6,000. I have about $2400 in the engine at this
point. I still have to buy the radiator and hoses and the ignition
system. I also have to fabricate the exhaust system. My desire is to
include a muffler in the system so as to keep noise levels down while
in flight.

Corky Scott

In article , Barnyard BOb --
writes:


FIRST...
You have to get past the engineering obstacles before you can
even think about a maintenance program. For my money,
the R & D never ends and therefore....
passengers should not be put at risk in this kind of experimenting.
This is an area of risk that insurance companies are loathe to write.

If I'm wrong, show me where.


Barnyard BOb --


My thoughts on the maintenance vs engineering was directly aimed a the FWF
packages available from some sources such as NSI. These are well engineered
packages but still leave you with an engine that can not be serviced by the
majority of AP's and which you should think twice about have your local greese
monkey work on.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

George do you get the impression that NONE of these guys got your point at
all. LMAO. Those two guys are funny.
Don

Kevin Horton wrote
If you stick with a "standard" aviation engine and prop, there is no
guarantee they will be problem free, but at least the usual problem areas
are well known and you should be able to watch out for them. If you go
with a "non-standard" engine and/or prop you don't know what problems to
look out for, so you can get bit, as happened in this case.

In fact, if you just stop experimenting and do things the way everyone
else has always done them (the "standard" way), you avoid lots of
problems.

Now excuse me - I'm going to lunch, so I need to sharpen my spear.

Michael

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:03:30 GMT,
(Corky Scott) wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:19:44 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote:

Geez, Bob.

The guys who are successfully flying auto conversions,
as we speak, are where? Here in RAH? I know of ONE.
All I get is **** from the wannabees.. projecting their brand of
warm fuzziest and what they are gonad do or finish SOME DAY.

Barnyard BOb -- Lamar look alike? Hmmmm.

Hard as this may be to believe, not everyone who owns a homebuilt,
powered by auto conversion or not, knows about or cares about
Recreational Aviation Homebuilt.

Corky Scott
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EXACTLY my argument !!!!!!

Thank you, thank you , thank you...
for your support. g

I recently stated and NOW REPEAT...
RAH is NOT the hotbed for auto conversions.
Anyone SERIOUS about such goes where in depth
information, knowledge and action occurs.

The conversion enthusiasts here that thump their chests and whine
so loudly are mere clueless ****ant wannabees in need of a roost
before moving on. The 'real deals' are too damn busy tending to their
conversions to waste precious time screwing around with circular and
dead end arguments that generate far more heat than light here in the
wannabee land of RAH.


Barnyard BOb --

Thanks, Corky,

I had wondered what became of the Geschwender reduction drives after Mr. G's
passing, and couldn't quite believe that a fully engineered and marketable
product would have been bandoned. For some reason, a Google search with the
argument fred + geschwender + psru gave Alternate Air Power, which now has a
web site. It is well out of my price range for the moment; but is actually
a real bargain when you consider the way it is built, and that it is made to
swing a constant speed prop.

I had also been unaware of the Belted Air Power name. It certainly looks
like a reasonable solution for a fixed pitch prop, and more effecient answer
than Steve Wittman's inverted engine solution--especially if you lust after
a retractable nose wheel. :-)

Peter


Corky Scott wrote:

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:19:44 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote:

Geez, Bob.

The guys who are successfully flying auto conversions,
as we speak, are where? Here in RAH? I know of ONE.
All I get is **** from the wannabees.. projecting their brand of
warm fuzziest and what they are gonad do or finish SOME DAY.

Barnyard BOb -- Lamar look alike? Hmmmm.

Hard as this may be to believe, not everyone who owns a homebuilt,
powered by auto conversion or not, knows about or cares about
Recreational Aviation Homebuilt.

Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they don't exist.
There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is that the
"in-your-face" intimidating nature of many respondents drives them
away, or makes them reluctant to post.

For the record, the reverend Ron Van der Hart flew a Buick engined
Pawnee for years, saw him at Oshkosh in '95, he sells a video on the
conversion.

Fred Geschwender built PSRU's for big block Fords to be used for
dusting operations. He's gone now but his business continues.

Johnny Lindgren, who now owns Northwest Aero has been selling engines
and PSRU's for years.

Andy Venable flew behind a Mazda engine for years before switching to
an aircraft engine. Why did he switch? Because it froze on him while
taxiing out for takeoff one day. He thinks it may be because he'd
tilted the engine for the installation, which he guesses screwed up
the oil system, eventually.

Speaking of Mazda's, there's Tracy Crook, who's flown a 13B powered
RV4 for five years or more now.

Then there's Jim Stewart in the Stewart S-51 Chevy V-8 powered Mustang
replica.

Belted Air Power makes PSRU's for Chevy V-6's and has been flying
behind a Chevy V-6 powered RV4 for years. Bill Phillips has flown it.

Jan Eggenfellner has been making Subaru auto conversions for at least
6 years and has sold several hundred units.

There was an engineer, a friend of Ron's, who flew behind a Ford
powered BD-4 for a number of years. He died flying a Gyro a few years
ago. His was the voice of reason and articulate examination of auto
conversions.

There's the guy, forget his name but he used to be the force behind
"Hurst" shifters, who modified a Chevy V-8 to be used in Lancair IV's.
It puts out 420 horsepower. He won the inaugural race from Kittyhawk
to Oshkosh flying that airplane. The engine is now being built and
sold in Auburn Maine.

Bruce Frank figures there are about 200 or so owners of V-6 Stol's
some of whom have hundreds of hours on them. Several have over 1,000
and one guy accumulated 2,000.

I have a Mpeg of a guy making his maiden flight in a Subaru powered
Comp Monster down in Florida. He had no problems.

Jerry Schweitzer did a busines building Ford V-6's and has flown to
many airshows to display his V6 Stol and his more recent Ford V-6
powered RV4. I have his video in which he describes the various
modifications he makes on the engine to make it reliable. The video
concludes with him flying around for 15 minutes in the Stol to show it
off.

There are others, they just don't post here.

Do they fail? Of course, so do professionally installed certified
engines. If you do the work yourself, if you are qualified to do so,
you can have a zero time engine that puts out at least 180 horsepower
for about $5,000 to $6,000. I have about $2400 in the engine at this
point. I still have to buy the radiator and hoses and the ignition
system. I also have to fabricate the exhaust system. My desire is to
include a muffler in the system so as to keep noise levels down while
in flight.

Corky Scott