Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts

Sharky wrote in message . ..
In , Ed Rasimus wrote:


I think John Kerry needs to be held fully accountable for his actions in
association with the VVAW. He disgraced himself, and brought false and
maliciously subversive charges against all those who served their country
honorably in Viet Nam.

That is a false and malicious misrepresentation of his words and actions.

Dwelling on his less_than_stellar four month
self-serving performance as a Ltjg is not going to give us the BIG picture
on this guy.

Agreed regardless of how stellar or not his service was.

--

FF

On 19 Aug 2004 11:42:32 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Sharky wrote in message . ..
In , Ed Rasimus wrote:


I think John Kerry needs to be held fully accountable for his actions in
association with the VVAW. He disgraced himself, and brought false and
maliciously subversive charges against all those who served their country
honorably in Viet Nam.

That is a false and malicious misrepresentation of his words and actions.

Similar to the misrepresentation of attributing someone else's remarks
to me?

The recent "talking points" of the DNC that continue to attempt to
discredit the more than sixty Swifties because they "weren't on the
boat with him" is ludicrous. As someone who flew an entire combat tour
in single-seat fighters, I'll quickly attest to the ability to observe
the performance of others in your formation, your unit or your chain
of command even though you weren't in the airplane with them.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:16:07 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

On 19 Aug 2004 11:42:32 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Sharky wrote in message . ..
In , Ed Rasimus wrote:


I think John Kerry needs to be held fully accountable for his actions in
association with the VVAW. He disgraced himself, and brought false and
maliciously subversive charges against all those who served their country
honorably in Viet Nam.

That is a false and malicious misrepresentation of his words and actions.

Similar to the misrepresentation of attributing someone else's remarks
to me?

The recent "talking points" of the DNC that continue to attempt to
discredit the more than sixty Swifties because they "weren't on the
boat with him" is ludicrous. As someone who flew an entire combat tour
in single-seat fighters, I'll quickly attest to the ability to observe
the performance of others in your formation, your unit or your chain
of command even though you weren't in the airplane with them.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org
Ed, I agree that the fellows on other boats would know something about
Kerry's actions, but I would think the guys on Kerry's boat would have
a clearer picture. They may also have some inside info, for example,
why he might have done something that seemed odd to guys on other
boats, that was perfectly rational if you knew the situation on
Kerry's deck. Peace!

Most people don't care about Kerry and the boat. By spending
so much time on this non-event, the public misses the more important
issue, of why he collects Senators pay, but never shows up for work?

His absentee rate is criminal.

In mvavc.7969$ni.2060@okepread01, on 08/19/2004
at 06:14 PM, "Billy Preston" said:

Most people don't care about Kerry and the boat. By spending so much
time on this non-event, the public misses the more important issue, of
why he collects Senators pay, but never shows up for work?

His absentee rate is criminal.

bush's vacation rate is criminal. -- As a matter of fact if he had been
on the job instead of vacation -- 9-11 might have been stopped.

Billy Preston wrote:
Most people don't care about Kerry and the boat. By spending
so much time on this non-event, the public misses the more important
issue, of why he collects Senators pay, but never shows up for work?

His absentee rate is criminal.

I happen to support his attendence rate. If more elected officials spent
less time at work, we'd have more of our freedom left.

Tom Lacombe wrote:
On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:16:07 -0600, Ed Rasimus
wrote:

Ed, I agree that the fellows on other boats would know something about
Kerry's actions, but I would think the guys on Kerry's boat would have
a clearer picture. They may also have some inside info, for example,
why he might have done something that seemed odd to guys on other
boats, that was perfectly rational if you knew the situation on
Kerry's deck. Peace!

Then Kerry's crew is certainly entitled to say their piece. However, there
is no justification in the Kerry camp's blanket attack on these vets. If
we're not to question Kerry because he's a vet, then the left should extend
the same courtesy to these guys.

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
On 19 Aug 2004 11:42:32 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Sharky wrote in message . ..
In , Ed Rasimus wrote:


I think John Kerry needs to be held fully accountable for his actions in
association with the VVAW. He disgraced himself, and brought false and
maliciously subversive charges against all those who served their country
honorably in Viet Nam.

That is a false and malicious misrepresentation of his words and actions.

Similar to the misrepresentation of attributing someone else's remarks
to me?


Nah, that was a simple screwup. Keep reading, I'll make more.

The recent "talking points" of the DNC that continue to attempt to
discredit the more than sixty Swifties because they "weren't on the
boat with him" is ludicrous. As someone who flew an entire combat tour
in single-seat fighters, I'll quickly attest to the ability to observe
the performance of others in your formation, your unit or your chain
of command even though you weren't in the airplane with them.

Would you also attest to your ability to BETTER observe what was
happening than the pilots (and crew if any) of those other planes?

I'll give more stock to the men whom we know were on the boat with
Kerry, and are willing to stand with him today, over what we are told
is said by others whom we are told were on other boats.

--

FF

Subject: Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts
From: (Fred the Red Shirt)
Date: 8/20/2004 11:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Ed Rasimus wrote in message
...
On 19 Aug 2004 11:42:32 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Sharky wrote in message
...
In , Ed Rasimus wrote:


I think John Kerry needs to be held fully accountable for his actions in
association with the VVAW. He disgraced himself, and brought false and
maliciously subversive charges against all those who served their
country
honorably in Viet Nam.

That is a false and malicious misrepresentation of his words and actions.

Similar to the misrepresentation of attributing someone else's remarks
to me?


Nah, that was a simple screwup. Keep reading, I'll make more.

The recent "talking points" of the DNC that continue to attempt to
discredit the more than sixty Swifties because they "weren't on the
boat with him" is ludicrous. As someone who flew an entire combat tour
in single-seat fighters, I'll quickly attest to the ability to observe
the performance of others in your formation, your unit or your chain
of command even though you weren't in the airplane with them.

Would you also attest to your ability to BETTER observe what was
happening than the pilots (and crew if any) of those other planes?

I'll give more stock to the men whom we know were on the boat with
Kerry, and are willing to stand with him today, over what we are told
is said by others whom we are told were on other boats.

--

FF



If there were any otter boats or Karl Rove just made them up.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 20 Aug 2004 11:09:32 -0700, (Fred the Red
Shirt) wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..

The recent "talking points" of the DNC that continue to attempt to
discredit the more than sixty Swifties because they "weren't on the
boat with him" is ludicrous. As someone who flew an entire combat tour
in single-seat fighters, I'll quickly attest to the ability to observe
the performance of others in your formation, your unit or your chain
of command even though you weren't in the airplane with them.

Would you also attest to your ability to BETTER observe what was
happening than the pilots (and crew if any) of those other planes?

I'll give more stock to the men whom we know were on the boat with
Kerry, and are willing to stand with him today, over what we are told
is said by others whom we are told were on other boats.

My comment on single-seat was to highlight the mistaken emphasis and
"spin" that says if you weren't on the boat you weren't there and
can't comment. The point being that military units operate in concert
with multiple players and it is possible to know very much about
performance even if not a rider in the same vehicle.

Let's make it two-seat aircraft like F-4s, for example. Now, you could
take the evidence of the WSO commenting on the capability of the
nose-gunner and say that is the only source of valid information. But,
you would be getting an interpretation of events from someone not
trained in the other crew-member's job and with a decidedly vested
self-interest in making that individual look good.

I will state unequivocally that YES, I could BETTER observe and
comment on the capabilities of the others in formation which I led. I
could definitely tell you more about individuals that were under my
authority as a fighter squadron operations officer, and I know for
sure that the folks who were in my chain of command, even though they
weren't flying in the same airplane with me, could tell you plenty
about my capabilities, leadership, and shortcomings.

If you give "more stock" to the subordinates on the boat with him
(that would be 13 or so out of 24 that served in that capacity) than
you give to the 60 out of 240 that were in the Swift boat operation
during the period and have come forward to counter the "band of
brothers" comments, then you don't really understand the concept.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
"Phantom Flights, Bangkok Nights"
Both from Smithsonian Books
***www.thunderchief.org