Leaving the community

"Fixing" the problem(s) is not easy. Here is a really radical idea:
Make narcotic drugs legal and free, or at least very inexpensive.
Making drugs legal and free would go a LONG way towards reducing
theft, if that is considered to be the **BIG** problem.

While I actually agree with your approach (and would have REALLY supported
it in my early 20s :-), I wonder about the social costs of such an action.

If drugs were freely available (or nearly so), would the stigma of addiction
diminish? Would it become "okay" to lay around stoned all day long, as it
is in some Caribbean cultures?

Is being non-productive a bad thing, as a society? Or would drugs simply
diminish and die, over time, must like cigarettes are doing now?

Dunno.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

If drugs were freely available (or nearly so), would the stigma of addiction
diminish? Would it become "okay" to lay around stoned all day long, as it
is in some Caribbean cultures?

I did a study for Sociology long ago for this sort of situation. When the
Harrison narcotics act was passed in the 30s, it was partially at the
instigation of the AMA. The AMA said that, based on the available evidence,
roughly 10% of the U.S. population was addicted to morphine. Their general idea
was to get this act passed and set up clinics to treat the addicts.

It turned out that over 25% of the population was addicted to morphine. The vast
majority of the addicts were fully functioning members of society -- as long as
they got their "fix". Now, heroin addicts are rarely productive members of
society -- they can't make enough money legally.

I interviewed my grandmother for this project. She said that the president of
the local bank had to leave town for treatment after the act passed. She also
said that "nobody suspected" that he was a user. Since the gossips pretty much
ran society in that town (Waynesville, NC), I believe her.

I certainly agreed with Corky at that time. The cost of crimes committed in NYC
alone to support heroin habits was astronomical in the early 70s, and I'm sure
it's worse now. I still feel that we would eliminate the traffic in this drug,
reduce crime by significant amounts, and allow many people who are criminals
today to be productive. I'm not sure the same results would be produced by
legalizing cocaine, however. Cocaine users are likely to become the
stereotypical "dope fiend with a knife" if they keep it up long enough.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Corky Scott" wrote

"Fixing" the problem(s) is not easy. Here is a really radical idea:
Make narcotic drugs legal and free, or at least very inexpensive.
Making drugs legal and free would go a LONG way towards reducing
theft, if that is considered to be the **BIG** problem.

Corky (notice I have not touched on the morality issue) Scott

Ooh, scary idea. I was in Amsterdam, at the peak of their experiment with
legal drugs, and prostitution, and I never wanted to get out of a city
quicker, than there. Stoners sitting around everywhere, shooting up in
public, women naked in store windows, filth everywhere....

I shudder to think about it. I believe they decided it was a failure, also.
--
Jim in NC


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"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Jay,

Your logic is flawed, and cannot survive scrutiny in the real world.


How convenient for you!

Again, all I'd expect is some sense humility in the face of, what?,
about four millions "Indians" killed in the process of building the
"land of the free". Here in Germany, most decent people try to show
that humility, in the face of 6 million Jews having been killed by our
ancestors. But, to each his own...

And, with the Oil-for-Food information coming out, it's evident that Germany
still hasn't learned their lesson.

BTW, your "facts" seem more Hollyweird than reality. Contemplate a
wilderness and how settlement can occur.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:F88nd.50084$V41.45850@attbi_s52...
"Them" are gone. "Them" are dead. That's the point.

That would come as quite a shock to the 2.8 million Americans who
identified
themselves as "Native American" in the most recent census.

And that the best estimates is that the peak North American aborigine
population prior to the arrival of the white man on North America is around
300,000, they've done pretty well since then, with a 900% increase.

If you can find a copy, read "The Indian Myths" by Robert Hendrick, which
dispels so many popular notions of the American Indian culture, such as
being ecologically pure, preserving wildlife, etc.

Up until 1800, life expectancy for American Indians was about the late 30's
for males and late 20's for females. Between tribal wars and diseases
(dysentery is believed to have killed more Indians by far than the white man
could have hoped to) life was short, brutal and harsh. Of course, Rousseau
thought that was a great life style.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:aSTmd.351017$wV.228537@attbi_s54...
I never said poverty was the ONLY cause of crime. But it's pretty dumb
to
think that there's NO causal relationship.

I don't believe anyone ever claimed that there was NO causal relationship
between crime and poverty.

What I implied, however, is that we shouldn't care if there is.

In America, theft is a moral problem, not an economic one. No one needs
to
steal to survive here. Therefore, no one "needs" to steal.

THe notion that people steal to survive is patently bogus. Stealing for food
is maybe 1% of theft. Stealing for drugs or "toys" is far more prevalent.

(Jay, would you hire some gang member to work in your hotel? Why not?)

--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
From what I've picked up in reading over the years, theft is a baby
that has many fathers. Poverty is certainly one causal factor.

And a criminal mindset is more a massive factor in CAUSING poverty.

As one person wrote.

"It's said that criminals behave as they do
because of their lack of economic opportunities.
It's more that they have no economic
opportunities BECAUSE they are criminals."

(Jay, would you hire some gang member to work in your hotel? Why not?)

I assume this is a rhetorical question.

Obviously a gang-banger would be a poor mix with an aviation theme, all
suites hotel!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Corky,

Make narcotic drugs legal and free, or at least very inexpensive.
Making drugs legal and free would go a LONG way towards reducing
theft, if that is considered to be the **BIG** problem.


Fully agree. FWIW, the really problematic drugs (alcohol and nicotine)
ARE freely available - and the government makes A LOT of money taxing
them. There might be a connection...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Jay,

Would it become "okay" to lay around stoned all day long, as it
is in some Caribbean cultures?


You been to any?

it is ok to be drunk all day in our society, or totally addicted to
nicotine. Where's the difference?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)