Student Pilot Gets Five Months In Prison

In article ,
"Rich S." wrote:

"Jughugs" wrote in message
...
Uh, no wonder other countries laugh at our lack of skill with language. So
growing up all through school, you were only taught to use ONE of the
possible meanings? Just a quick look at dictionary.com shows other uses
and gives an example:

"To reduce markedly in amount: a profligate heir who decimated his trust
fund. "

Repeated errors may become common usage - but they're still errors.

I guess if I were an ancient Roman I might agree with you, but as
a speaker of English, I have to say you're wrong. It's a common
meaning and as correct as any other.

Unless you regularly speak proto-Indo European, your converstation is
probably entirely words that originally had other meanings.

Mike Beede

Yes, other countries are laughing at us for a variety of good reasons.

Mostly because they are jealous. In spite of many problems, we have the best
country in the world bar none. We are number one!

And, we can laugh at ourselves. Further proving our supremacy.

We are Number One!

And, we gladly share the "secrets" of our success with others hoping they
can do as well or better.

WE ARE NUMBER ONE!!!!

Please refer any disagreements to the head of state of any place you think
is better, Good Luck.

What conceivable legitimacy does the government have in sticking
its nose into one's misdemeanor record on an airman medical form
specifically designed for inquiry into his health?

The government has an interest in this for at least several reasons,
not the least of which is the simple expediency of seeing if the
applicant is being truthful on the application. This is important to
determine, if possible, and the method used is reasonable, in my view.
Ask a straightup question, the answer to which is public information
anyway, and see if the applicant is candid in replying.

Besides, "health" includes more than just physical health. Mental and
emotional health are equally important and also come under the heading
"medical". Someone with a string of non-traffic misdemeanors may not
be a suitable candidate for an airman certificate, depending on the
nature of the offenses. If that person is willing to lie about them on
an official application, to conduct a cover-up, then that person would
be likely, in my view anyway, to lie about other things, perhaps even
falsify other records such as log book entries, or to claim some
certification he or she does not possess. Why take the chance? Why
fail to check the barn door when it is easy to do so?

What does the physician care if you've pleaded guilty to speeding
and had to go to driver improvement clinic in order to remove
points from your license?

The physician does not care. That's not his or her job. But the public
at large is legitimately very interested in every airman applicant's
truthfulness regarding his or her legal status, criminal history, if
any, and medical condition, and the FAA's job is to make flying safe
for everyone, in the air and on the ground.

Lots and lots of people have been convicted of misdemeanors. Many have
done time. In my case, I paid a fine. And yes, when one has paid one's
fine and/or served one's time, one should no longer be dogged by the
charge. In and of itself, this should be no bar to obtaining an airman
certificate. Indeed, it is not. Even most felonies are probably not a
bar to aviation, depending on the harm or danger caused to others,
i.e., the lack of regard for the safty of others. But lying about it
certainly should be a bar to certification. What would you have, a
certified liar in command? Great confidence builder!

Another reason to support full disclosure on the application, as well
as the proscription against lying and the attendant penalties for
being untruthful, is that there is nowhere else to draw a clear line.
Some lies are worse than others. Some omitted information is more
critical than other omitted information. Yes, no doubt, but where can
you draw the line? Without a total ban on false statements on
applications, and suitably stiff penalties for making them, the
situation could not be managed efficiently.

Thanks for listening, even if you disagree.

Ralph

The problem I have with it are several, but in this particular
case, can we not quote double jeopardy. The judge sentences you to
prison for 10 years. Once you've served your time, why do you then
get hit with arbitrary questions that further restrict your rights.

How, exactly, does a question about your past, which is public
information anyway, restrict your rights? Where, exactly, is the
double jeopardy?

"Theorem" "theorem AT axiometric DOT org" wrote in message
...
What conceivable legitimacy does the government have in sticking
its nose into one's misdemeanor record on an airman medical form
specifically designed for inquiry into his health?
[...]
Lots and lots of people have been convicted of misdemeanors. Many have
done time. In my case, I paid a fine. And yes, when one has paid one's
fine and/or served one's time, one should no longer be dogged by the
charge. In and of itself, this should be no bar to obtaining an airman
certificate. Indeed, it is not.

Oh, shades of McCarthyism. How would YOU know? How would anyone know?
The form you're filling out doesn't say a goddamn thing about that.


Even most felonies are probably not a
bar to aviation, depending on the harm or danger caused to others,

How would YOU know? How would anyone know?

i.e., the lack of regard for the safty of others. But lying about it
certainly should be a bar to certification. What would you have, a
certified liar in command? Great confidence builder!

Gross oversimplification. Do you know how many affluent kids who have been
convicted of felonies or serious misdemeanors have had their records
expunged?

And how many of these can fill out that airman medical form, lie on it, and
escape detection and prosecution?

You may not know it but once a crime has been expunged, the criminal no
longer has to admit he has committed it.

So what do you do, admit or deny? The expunction laws say you can deny,
but you damn sure better not deny an expunged crime on an application to be
a member of the bar.

This is a can of worms. You wouldn't be one of those totalitarians in the
public sector who opened it, would you?

No problem with drunks and drugsters. They shouldn't fly, not in GA or
carrying passengers for hire. They shouldn't fly ultralights or SA
aircraft, just my opinion. But making a guy run to his lawyer for advice,
and subjecting him to risk of a prison sentence, loss of citizenship, and a
felony record, when he's asked if he had to go to driver improvement clinic
when he was 16 in order to qualify for a third-class medical? That's
something out of _1984_ and follows and is because of 9-11. And 9-11 was
caused by the Bush Administration and the FBI sitting on their asses when
red flags were up everywhere that a band of crazed saudi muslims were about
to turn airliners into WMD's. So rank and file Americans are being punished
for it, with such vexatious foolishness as this.

Doctrine of substitutive atonement, or maybe a curse from one of those
commandments the theocrats want to post on every town square.

jls wrote:
when he was 16 in order to qualify for a third-class medical? That's
something out of _1984_ and follows and is because of 9-11. And 9-11 was
caused by the Bush Administration and the FBI sitting on their asses when
red flags were up everywhere that a band of crazed saudi muslims were
about
to turn airliners into WMD's. So rank and file Americans are being
punished for it, with such vexatious foolishness as this.

Doctrine of substitutive atonement, or maybe a curse from one of those
commandments the theocrats want to post on every town square.


The guy lied about a very serious criminal offense and YOU just CAN'T let it
go.
NOw you bring up your political agenda to throw into the mix. Everything is
Bush's fault! The perpetrator is totally innocent.
jls please get a life! Go out and go flying maybe that will cool you off a
bit. I think this thread has been beaten to death!
John

Theorem wrote:
The problem I have with it are several, but in this particular
case, can we not quote double jeopardy. The judge sentences you to
prison for 10 years. Once you've served your time, why do you then
get hit with arbitrary questions that further restrict your rights.


How, exactly, does a question about your past, which is public
information anyway, restrict your rights? Where, exactly, is the double
jeopardy?

There isn't a "double jeopardy." If the applicant had told the truth in
the first place there would have been no jeopardy. Since he lied it was
an entirely new charge totally unrelated to the first. It doesn't make a
difference what he lied about the fact remains he did.

I have no sympathy for the applicant.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

UltraJohn wrote:

jls wrote:

when he was 16 in order to qualify for a third-class medical? That's
something out of _1984_ and follows and is because of 9-11. And 9-11 was
caused by the Bush Administration and the FBI sitting on their asses when
red flags were up everywhere that a band of crazed saudi muslims were
about
to turn airliners into WMD's. So rank and file Americans are being
punished for it, with such vexatious foolishness as this.

Doctrine of substitutive atonement, or maybe a curse from one of those
commandments the theocrats want to post on every town square.



The guy lied about a very serious criminal offense and YOU just CAN'T let it
go.
NOw you bring up your political agenda to throw into the mix. Everything is
Bush's fault! The perpetrator is totally innocent.
jls please get a life! Go out and go flying maybe that will cool you off a
bit. I think this thread has been beaten to death!
John

If I recall correctly I was asked if I had ever been arrested back in
the 1970s. I know I did in the 1980s.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"UltraJohn" wrote in message
ink.net...
jls wrote:
when he was 16 in order to qualify for a third-class medical? That's
something out of _1984_ and follows and is because of 9-11. And 9-11
was
caused by the Bush Administration and the FBI sitting on their asses
when
red flags were up everywhere that a band of crazed saudi muslims were
about
to turn airliners into WMD's. So rank and file Americans are being
punished for it, with such vexatious foolishness as this.

Doctrine of substitutive atonement, or maybe a curse from one of those
commandments the theocrats want to post on every town square.


The guy lied about a very serious criminal offense and YOU just CAN'T let
it
go.

Poor reading comprehension. The punishment meted out to the offender in NC
for lying on his airman medical form is fair and just; he got what he
deserved and was stupid besides because unlike many criminal offenders, he
had a big dossier in the National Crime Information Center database. The
post-9-11 changes on the form to ask intrusive, irrational questions on
petty crimes and infractions I do quarrel with, since they go beyond
legitimate inquiry and are vague, overbroad, discriminatory in fact and law,
arbitrary and capricious, and otherwise violate due process of law and the
equal protections of the laws under the 14th Amendment, just the kind of
bull**** over-meddlesome over-regulating big brother loves to do nowadays.

NOw you bring up your political agenda to throw into the mix.

Hell, yes, and the last time you peed yourself over something I said you
demanded someone call Ok City and cancel my ticket, you wacky old
goosestepper. Even a mortal enemy of mine denounced you for it.


Everything is
Bush's fault!

Not quite everything, but he had daily briefings shortly before 9-11with FBI
and CIA warning that there was credible intelligence foreign islamic
militants in the USA (and god knows we've let enough of them into the
country to roam and plot at will) were plotting to hijack airliners and fly
them into skyscrapers.

The perpetrator is totally innocent.

Uh, no, the perpetrators are all in paradise enjoying their 72 virgins and
28 little boys, while Americans are being tormented with the Patriot Act,
idiots like John Ashcroft who's scared ****less to let a tit on a statue
stand uncovered, and idiotic federal oppression like the new airman medical
application.

If I stand idly by with actual or constructive knowledge (which the Bush
Administration had) that thousands of Americans are about to be slaughtered
by foreign zealots with evil holy books like the koran and the hadith and
enough pilot instruction to steer a 737 into the World Trade Center, that
makes me culpable when they carry it out.

jls please get a life! Go out and go flying maybe that will cool you off a
bit. I think this thread has been beaten to death!
John


Translation: "Shut up. I don't like what you're saying so I'm declaring
the thread finished."

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:ZHHWd.24389$Sn6.5909@lakeread03...
UltraJohn wrote:

jls wrote:

when he was 16 in order to qualify for a third-class medical? That's
something out of _1984_ and follows and is because of 9-11. And 9-11
was
caused by the Bush Administration and the FBI sitting on their asses
when
red flags were up everywhere that a band of crazed saudi muslims were
about
to turn airliners into WMD's. So rank and file Americans are being
punished for it, with such vexatious foolishness as this.

Doctrine of substitutive atonement, or maybe a curse from one of those
commandments the theocrats want to post on every town square.



The guy lied about a very serious criminal offense and YOU just CAN'T
let it
go.
NOw you bring up your political agenda to throw into the mix. Everything
is
Bush's fault! The perpetrator is totally innocent.
jls please get a life! Go out and go flying maybe that will cool you off
a
bit. I think this thread has been beaten to death!
John

If I recall correctly I was asked if I had ever been arrested back in
the 1970s. I know I did in the 1980s.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On an airman medical application, third class? For alcohol or drug-related
offenses. If for anything else, I'd have to see it to believe it.

As I've said before the government has a legitimate interest in preventing
alchoholics, drunks, drugsters, and drug dealers from operating aircraft or
heavy machinery.