The frustrating economics of aviation

Okay, we have gone 'round and 'round about why new airplanes cost so much:
low demand, liability, inefficient manufacturing, regulatory requirements,
etc. It is so daunting that Toyota appears to have scrapped its GA project.

Perhaps one reason demand is so low is because of the cost of becoming a
pilot. It takes most people about a year and $7,000 to learn to fly. Can you
imagine what would happen to the boating industry if the government imposed
similar regulatory requirements to learn to drive a boat? Most of getting a
seaplane license, for example, is really demonstrating boating skills. You
are basically being required to get a very costly license in order to drive
a kind of boat. What if everyone who drives a boat had to do that? Would
boating be safer? Would it be worth it? Would boating practically die out as
aviation has?

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Okay, we have gone 'round and 'round about why new airplanes cost so
much:
low demand, liability, inefficient manufacturing, regulatory
requirements,
etc. It is so daunting that Toyota appears to have scrapped its GA
project.

Perhaps one reason demand is so low is because of the cost of becoming
a
pilot. It takes most people about a year and $7,000 to learn to fly.
Can you
imagine what would happen to the boating industry if the government
imposed
similar regulatory requirements to learn to drive a boat? Most of
getting a
seaplane license, for example, is really demonstrating boating skills.
You
are basically being required to get a very costly license in order to
drive
a kind of boat. What if everyone who drives a boat had to do that?
Would
boating be safer? Would it be worth it? Would boating practically die
out as
aviation has?

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA

If one tries to establish a reason for the high cost of general aviation
in the United States, at any level you view, one has to factor in the
presence of the American trial lawyer into the cost equation.
Without lawyers influencing the cost factors, the price of the
airplanes, all peripherals, and even the cost of the training would be
much more reasonable.
At ALL levels, you will find cost factoring to either cover the cost of
litigation, or the FEAR of potential litigation.
Like every other major business the American lawyer has touched, general
aviation has not been spared the unending quest of the American trial
lawyer to fill his pockets with our money by capitalizing on our natural
desire to get rich quick.
It's a perfect system. Greedy and savvy lawyers taking advantage at
every turn of ignorant people also seeking a fast buck. The perfect
marriage!!!

The only losers in this equation are the people. The lawyers NEVER
lose!! after all.......they designed the system!!!!!:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
k.net...


If one tries to establish a reason for the high cost of general aviation
in the United States, at any level you view, one has to factor in the
presence of the American trial lawyer into the cost equation.
Without lawyers influencing the cost factors, the price of the
airplanes, all peripherals, and even the cost of the training would be
much more reasonable.
At ALL levels, you will find cost factoring to either cover the cost of
litigation, or the FEAR of potential litigation.
Like every other major business the American lawyer has touched, general
aviation has not been spared the unending quest of the American trial
lawyer to fill his pockets with our money by capitalizing on our natural
desire to get rich quick.
It's a perfect system. Greedy and savvy lawyers taking advantage at
every turn of ignorant people also seeking a fast buck. The perfect
marriage!!!

The only losers in this equation are the people. The lawyers NEVER
lose!! after all.......they designed the system!!!!!:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt


AMEN!

Jay Beckman
Student Pilot - KCHD

Dudley Henriques ) wrote:
:
: The lawyers NEVER lose!! after all.......they designed the system!!!!!:-)
:

Even lawyers can be offshored...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/426946.cms
Now, outsourcing to hit US lawyers - The Economic Times

"After tech jobs and financial jobs , it is now the turn of US legal
jobs to move to India.

West, the Eagan-based legal-publishing unit of Canada's Thomson Corp.,
has started a small test office in Mumbai. Here, half-a-dozen Indian
lawyers are doing online interpretation and legal-classification of
"unpublished decisions" of US state and lower courts, the Star Tribune
has reported. ( Can US legal eagles derail the Indian BPO train? )

Their work is currently not considered big deals -- or "precedential"
in legal parlance.

However, one day, these lawyers could be interpreting and synthesising
US court decisions for subscribers of Westlaw, the online legal
network relied upon by thousands of US attorneys.

[snip]

The American Lawyer had reported recently that General Electric and
other US firms are starting to use Indian lawyers to supplant some of
the work formerly done by US law firms.

Forrester Research, the market research firm, predicts that by 2015
more than 489,000 US lawyer jobs -- about 8 per cent of the total,
will shift to lower-cost countries."


http://www.atlaslegal.com/atlasBusineemode.html
Atlas legal Research

"Where do you go to find some of the world's best lawyers to write
top-quality legal briefs and memos for about the price of a discount
airline ticket?

Answer: We go to INDIA!

In 2001, Atlas established its first research center located in the
heart of India, the world's largest democracy and home to one of the
world's largest pools of intelligent, hard-working, English-proficient
lawyers. Simultaneously, Atlas maintains a presence in the US to
oversee quality and to ensure the finest service to our clients.
Here's why Atlas chose India for its first research center:..."


Would you like fries with your will ?


--Jerry Leslie
Note: is invalid for email

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 18:00:43 GMT, (leslie)
wrote:

Forrester Research, the market research firm, predicts that by 2015
more than 489,000 US lawyer jobs -- about 8 per cent of the total,
will shift to lower-cost countries."

So they must be thinking that by 2015, we'll have six times the number of
lawyers that we have today.

I wonder upon what basis they make that conclusion.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message nk.net...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
If one tries to establish a reason for the high cost of general aviation
in the United States, at any level you view, one has to factor in the
presence of the American trial lawyer into the cost equation.
Without lawyers influencing the cost factors, the price of the
airplanes, all peripherals, and even the cost of the training would be
much more reasonable... Blah, blah, blah.


As mr Sondrecker requested- let's have some facts. Opinionated
diatribe by Henrique and others without facts is prety much the order
of the day for them and their ilk. PLEASE-give me some specifics!!!
There aren't any. The American judicial system based upon the
centuries-old concept of a jury of one's peers is second to none.

FACT: The American Insurance Association published a report " Premium
Deceit: The Failure of 'Tort Reform' to Cut Insurance Prices"
(March,2002), which found, following a 14 year study, that there was
no relation between tort restrictions and insurance rates.
This study was consistent with the National Association of
Attorneys General:
"The facts do not bear out the allegations of an explosion in
litigation or in claim size, nor do they bear out the
allegations of a financial disaster suffered by property/casualty
insurers today. They finally do not support any correlation between
the current crisis in availability and affordability of insurance and
such litigation explosion. The available data indicate that the
causes of, and therefore solutions to, the current crisis lie with the
insurance industry itself."

Ernst & Young and the Risk and Insurance Management Society's report
of business liability costs recently found such costs to be miniscule
and the lowest in over a decade. The study found liability costs to
be in steep decline to only $4.83 for every $1000 in revenue in 2000.
2001 RIMS Benchmark Survey, (2002).

The United States is the most competitive nation in the world and
companies with high liability exposure are having great success
innovating and competing in world markets. Institute form Management
Delopment, 1998 Report. In a study of US manufacturing
competitiveness, teh Congressional Office of Technology Assessment
found that the greatest influences on US competitiveness were capital
costs, quality of human resources, technology transfer and technology
difficulties. Liability laws were not even mentioned as a factor.
The business-backed Conference Board stated affirmatively in its 1987
report that product liability laws do not have significant adverse
effects on competitiveness. In more than 2/3s of the surveyed
companies, liability costs were less than 1 per cent of total costs.

Most notably, the Board found "Where product liability has had a
notable impact--where it has most significantly affected management
decision making-- has been in the quality of the products themselves.
Managers say thet products have become safer, manufacturing procedures
have been improved, and labels and use instructions have become more
explicit." Weber, Nathan "Product Liability: The Corporate Response,
Research Report #893.

I could go on and on and on, with facts, not hysterical hyperbole and
repetition of tired, unsubstantiated propaganda by gullible sheep.
GET SOME FACTS AND THINK FOR YOURSELF, FOR A CHANGE!!!

Want to criticize John Edwards for being an "ambulance chaser,' taking
frivolous cases? Give me the name of the case and/or the facts of the
case, and let's see!

Frivolous lawsuits- there is a procedure to deal with them. See Rule
11, Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and the stste rules patterned
after it in most states.

Loser pays?? Yes; I'll bet the coffee lady would have loved that
rule!

Oh, by the way...I'm a trial lawyer, and proud of it.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message nk.net...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
If one tries to establish a reason for the high cost of general aviation
in the United States, at any level you view, one has to factor in the
presence of the American trial lawyer into the cost equation.
Without lawyers influencing the cost factors, the price of the
airplanes, all peripherals, and even the cost of the training would be
much more reasonable... Blah, blah, blah.


As mr Sondrecker requested- let's have some facts. Opinionated
diatribe by Henrique and others without facts is prety much the order
of the day for them and their ilk. PLEASE-give me some specifics!!!
There aren't any. The American judicial system based upon the
centuries-old concept of a jury of one's peers is second to none.

FACT: The American Insurance Association published a report " Premium
Deceit: The Failure of 'Tort Reform' to Cut Insurance Prices"
(March,2002), which found, following a 14 year study, that there was
no relation between tort restrictions and insurance rates.
This study was consistent with the National Association of
Attorneys General:
"The facts do not bear out the allegations of an explosion in
litigation or in claim size, nor do they bear out the
allegations of a financial disaster suffered by property/casualty
insurers today. They finally do not support any correlation between
the current crisis in availability and affordability of insurance and
such litigation explosion. The available data indicate that the
causes of, and therefore solutions to, the current crisis lie with the
insurance industry itself."

Ernst & Young and the Risk and Insurance Management Society's report
of business liability costs recently found such costs to be miniscule
and the lowest in over a decade. The study found liability costs to
be in steep decline to only $4.83 for every $1000 in revenue in 2000.
2001 RIMS Benchmark Survey, (2002).

The United States is the most competitive nation in the world and
companies with high liability exposure are having great success
innovating and competing in world markets. Institute form Management
Delopment, 1998 Report. In a study of US manufacturing
competitiveness, teh Congressional Office of Technology Assessment
found that the greatest influences on US competitiveness were capital
costs, quality of human resources, technology transfer and technology
difficulties. Liability laws were not even mentioned as a factor.
The business-backed Conference Board stated affirmatively in its 1987
report that product liability laws do not have significant adverse
effects on competitiveness. In more than 2/3s of the surveyed
companies, liability costs were less than 1 per cent of total costs.

Most notably, the Board found "Where product liability has had a
notable impact--where it has most significantly affected management
decision making-- has been in the quality of the products themselves.
Managers say thet products have become safer, manufacturing procedures
have been improved, and labels and use instructions have become more
explicit." Weber, Nathan "Product Liability: The Corporate Response,
Research Report #893.

I could go on and on and on, with facts, not hysterical hyperbole and
repetition of tired, unsubstantiated propaganda by gullible sheep.
GET SOME FACTS AND THINK FOR YOURSELF, FOR A CHANGE!!!

Want to criticize John Edwards for being an "ambulance chaser,' taking
frivolous cases? Give me the name of the case and/or the facts of the
case, and let's see!

Frivolous lawsuits- there is a procedure to deal with them. See Rule
11, Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and the stste rules patterned
after it in most states.

Loser pays?? Yes; I'll bet the coffee lady would have loved that
rule!

Oh, by the way...I'm a trial lawyer, and proud of it.

In article ,
(smackey) wrote:

Oh, by the way...I'm a trial lawyer, and proud of it.

really? I never would have guessed.

--
Bob Noel

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(smackey) wrote:

Oh, by the way...I'm a trial lawyer, and proud of it.

really? I never would have guessed.

What, that he was pround of it? I suppose hookers, paid killers, drug
dealers, etc., are proud of their professions, too.

"smackey" wrote in message
m...

Oh, by the way...I'm a trial lawyer, and proud of it.


Well, if you are a trial lawyer, you can't be a very good one. :-)
Trial lawyers are usually way too smart to make a point by forming a
comment that takes an individual (Henrique) and portrays that individual
in a hypothetical group (them and their ilk); which is a glittering
generalization; then in the next sentence, demands specifics. That's
hysterically funny!!!!
You were doing fine until you reached for that "them and their ilk" bit.
Here's a clue for your "next case".
Glittering generalization has no place in trial law. Actually, it has
no place in intelligent dialog either :-))))

Here's your comment;

Opinionated diatribe by Henrique and others without facts is prety
much the order of the day for them and their ilk. PLEASE-give me some
specifics!!!

Brilliant!!! :-))

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt