Insuring a Columbia 400 & weekend only insurance

Question for insurance experts -

Insurance for the Columbia 400 is absurdly high compared to other
similar aircraft, presumably because the premiums are loaded due to
lack of significant statistics. Any idea how long potential Columbia
buyers can expect to wait for the premium to stabilize?

Can anyone recommend an insurance provider who would be willing to
discount infrequent flying, like someone who would only need to carry
insurance Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

--
PM instructions: Caesar cipher the alpha characters in my address
using +3 as the key.

"Justin Gombos" wrote in message
news:9ciii.7426$bh5.1466@trndny01...
Question for insurance experts -

Insurance for the Columbia 400 is absurdly high compared to other
similar aircraft, presumably because the premiums are loaded due to
lack of significant statistics.

What have you been quoted, and by whom?

Any idea how long potential Columbia
buyers can expect to wait for the premium to stabilize?

Considering that the 400 has been on the market now for four years or more,
and has about 800 in the field, and has had three accidents (all CFIT), it
seems someone seeling is making lame excuses.

Can anyone recommend an insurance provider who would be willing to
discount infrequent flying, like someone who would only need to carry
insurance Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

Nope. AAMOF, as a infrequent flyer, you're going to pay more. MUCH more.
Particularly with a high performance aircraft.

Have 3000+ hours, an IR, and fly 300+ hours a year and your rate will go WAY
down.


--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

On 2007-07-03, Matt Barrow wrote:

What have you been quoted, and by whom?

I haven't shopped it out, figuring it will save me some time to find
out in usenet what discounts to be aware of before I start making
calls. Newps commented in another thread that it would cost $8-10k to
insure him in a Columbia, versus $1900 in a Bonanza. That's what
prompted this thread.

Nope. AAMOF, as a infrequent flyer, you're going to pay more. MUCH
more. Particularly with a high performance aircraft.

Have 3000+ hours, an IR, and fly 300+ hours a year and your rate
will go WAY down.

That's the kind of info I was looking for. The cost of accumulating
3k hours outweighs the reduced insurance premium. But getting the IR
sooner rather than later may be justified.

--
PM instructions: do a caesar cipher on the alpha characters in my address using +3 as the key.

"Justin Gombos" wrote in message
news:9QUki.5254$nQ4.3245@trndny01...
On 2007-07-03, Matt Barrow wrote:

What have you been quoted, and by whom?

I haven't shopped it out, figuring it will save me some time to find
out in usenet what discounts to be aware of before I start making
calls. Newps commented in another thread that it would cost $8-10k to
insure him in a Columbia, versus $1900 in a Bonanza. That's what
prompted this thread.

He's wayyyy high, I think (I don't know his coverage or his logbook). But
then his Bo is about $100-150K (IIRC) and a newer COL400 is pushing $600K.

http://www.flycolumbia.com/.docs/_si...irst_Quote.pdf

(hope that wraps correctly)

Check the part about optimal pilot characteristics and see how many you fall
into.


Nope. AAMOF, as a infrequent flyer, you're going to pay more. MUCH
more. Particularly with a high performance aircraft.

Have 3000+ hours, an IR, and fly 300+ hours a year and your rate
will go WAY down.

That's the kind of info I was looking for. The cost of accumulating
3k hours outweighs the reduced insurance premium. But getting the IR
sooner rather than later may be justified.

Well, you don't have to have 3000 hours, but it sounds like you fall into a
few of the "high risk" categories. An IR can save as much as 25% on your
insurance.

Check the URL'ed PDF and let us know how it went. Also, call the broker
listed at the bottom; they gave give you more specifics, and they have a
good handle on Columbia's product line.

--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY


"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become
dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest
authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."
-- Omar Ahmad, Chairman Emeritus, Council on American-Islamic Relations
(CAIR).

On Jul 2, 7:08 pm, Justin Gombos wrote:
Question for insurance experts -

Insurance for the Columbia 400 is absurdly high compared to other
similar aircraft, presumably because the premiums are loaded due to
lack of significant statistics. Any idea how long potential Columbia
buyers can expect to wait for the premium to stabilize?

Can anyone recommend an insurance provider who would be willing to
discount infrequent flying, like someone who would only need to carry
insurance Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

You'll need to fly a lot more than that to get an insurance break.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Jul 2, 7:08 pm, Justin Gombos wrote:
Question for insurance experts -

Insurance for the Columbia 400 is absurdly high compared to other
similar aircraft, presumably because the premiums are loaded due to
lack of significant statistics. Any idea how long potential Columbia
buyers can expect to wait for the premium to stabilize?

Can anyone recommend an insurance provider who would be willing to
discount infrequent flying, like someone who would only need to carry
insurance Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

You'll need to fly a lot more than that to get an insurance break.

-Robert

I also doubt you are going to find a carrier that would be willing to start
a policy every Friday and end it on Sunday.

On 2007-07-03, Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

I also doubt you are going to find a carrier that would be willing
to start a policy every Friday and end it on Sunday.

That's not what I was looking for anyway. I would be more interested
in an annual policy that is effectively excludes flying incidents
Monday-Thursday.

--
PM instructions: do a caesar cipher on the alpha characters in my address using +3 as the key.

"Justin Gombos" wrote

That's not what I was looking for anyway. I would be more interested
in an annual policy that is effectively excludes flying incidents
Monday-Thursday.

You must not understand insurance.

Think of it this way. How would you not flying Mon-Thurs make you less likely
to crash or break something, resulting in a claim?

Would you be flying more hours if you had a full week policy? If not, why lower
a year's premium?

If anything, flying Fri-Sun would expose you to more risk, in possible mid-air's
with increased weekend fliers. That is the bottom line; to insure you for
cheaper, they would need to see lower risk. You would not be giving them lower
risk, so cost stays the same.
--
Jim in NC

On 2007-07-11, Morgans wrote:

You must not understand insurance.

My understanding of insurance only scratches the surface; but my
understanding of math has me questioning your figures.

Think of it this way. How would you not flying Mon-Thurs make you
less likely to crash or break something, resulting in a claim?

I'm figuring air time to be directly proportional to risk.

Would you be flying more hours if you had a full week policy? If
not, why lower a year's premium?

More available flight hours generally means more hours in the air,
thus more hours at risk. If that were not the case, then one year of
insurance would transfer the same risk as two or more years of
coverage. But we know that's not true because insurers charge double
for two years of coverage.

If anything, flying Fri-Sun would expose you to more risk, in
possible mid-air's with increased weekend fliers.

Those insured for 365.25 days/year would share that same weekend risk.
But weekend pilots are not at risk during the week. So naturally
that's relatively less risk.

I'm not saying the risk transfered on a Saturday equals that of a
Wednesday, nor does that have to be true to justify a lower rate.
Weekend pilots are probably higher risk per hour than a 40+ hours/week
pilot, so the premium most likely would not be reduced to 3/7ths of
the normal rate.. but even if the premium is reduced to 5/7ths of the
rate the policy would sell.

That is the bottom line; to insure you for cheaper, they would need
to see lower risk. You would not be giving them lower risk, so cost
stays the same.

I don't see how ~156 days of insurance is not less risk than 365 days.
Even if you figure that more of the available time is consumed on a
weekend policy, you can still expect the annual risk to be lower.

--
PM instructions: do a caesar cipher on the alpha characters in my address using +3 as the key.

Justin Gombos wrote:
On 2007-07-03, Gig 601XL Builder wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

I also doubt you are going to find a carrier that would be willing
to start a policy every Friday and end it on Sunday.

That's not what I was looking for anyway. I would be more interested
in an annual policy that is effectively excludes flying incidents
Monday-Thursday.


But that is pretty much what they'd be doing anyway. What makes you think
that your risk flying 50 hours per year only on weekend would be any less
than the guy in the next hanger who flys 50 hours a year but on any day of
the week?

In fact since there will be more recreational pilots flying on weekend the
chance that you would run into one of them increases. There would also be
the added concern that on one of your weekend jaunts you would be more
likely to fly in worst weather because waiting until Monday isn't an option.

But it all boils down to the fact that the insurance company's risk would
not be reduced enough for you to even notice the difference.