EU as joke (modified)

In article ,
"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote:

I agree that Chirac should have shut up, too. On the other hand
he had a point: Members of the EU should at least try to speak
with one voice when dealing with the US.

Why?

They have very different needs and priorities in pretty much every
aspect of international politics, and even though they're a "Union" in a
somewhat superficial sense, they're not one large Ubercountry.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as
responsible for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and
manipulating intelligence information in order to gather
support for the most radical action any nation can undertake -
acts of war against another nation.

Hogwash! His persona in Europe as a "cowboy" predated 9/11/01.
Try again....

Again, I don't know what you mean by "cowboy", but I do know
Bush's image, be it right or not, suffers from his
inability to communcate with a clear sense of depth, wisdom
and well articulation compared to some other US presidents,
or officials. Clinton didn't, Bush senior didn't, Gore didn't..

You might say "oh where's the politics and intellect in this?"
Well there isn't that much, go figure, but then neither
perhaps is cowboy'ism.

Though much of that perception is completely overshadowed
by the recent scandals. Because that's what it is, scandal. :^/

In some ways the US image is that of an extremly competent
offencive machine, but lack the ability to resolve deep
routed cultural or religious conflicts. If nothing else,
then aparently on the basis that they let their own national
interests, or shortsightedness, come in the way for a
real understanding on how to approach something like that.

Oh it could be worse of course, but some people should also
start giving way to the though that neither the US nor
europe can manage this problem alone, not even together -
it's a team effort with the rest of the world playing.


Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days,
or how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.


Just returned from 3 weeks in GE and BE and went out one night
with a Belgian who is a future brother-in-law of one of the guys
in my office. Spent over 3 hours talking with him, also had
lunch and dinner with a few SHAPE officers. At least the SHAPE
officers understand the reality of American politics, one in
fact thought the whole European "cowboy" persona was a horrible
blunder of international politics.

I sincerely hope you had an fun and worthwhile trip, but I'm
sure you can see the slim conection in what you write above,
compared to my point. :^)

Just curious, have you ever lived or serviced in europe, or
anywhere else for that matter? I would be surprise if you
hadn't.



Regards...

In article ,
"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote:

"William Wright" wrote in message
news:G9xpb.70401$mZ5.436474@attbi_s54...

"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote in message
...

I agree that Chirac should have shut up, too. On the other hand
he had a point: Members of the EU should at least try to speak
with one voice when dealing with the US.

Why?

Well, because it is the point of a political alliance, which is
what the EU is, despite some claims to the contrary.

Look at the refusal of some of the major EU countries to comply with
something as simple as a debt ceiling. One of the first things they
"agreed" on, and it's failing miserably.

The EU is a loose political alliance, but it's certainly not going to be
"one voice" in any true sense.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Alan Minyard wrote in
:
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar"
wrote:
(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk
about intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as
responsible for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and
manipulating intelligence information in order to gather
support for the most radical action any nation can undertake -
acts of war against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days,
or how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????

Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?


Europeans (with a few notable exceptions) are too cowardly
and feeble to do anything, that is except to criticize the
Country that has saved them on several occasions.

I guess ones does what any critic would and should do in
the face of manipulation, express a voice against it.
It takes courage, and I know for a fact that many
americans are doing that as well.

But "europeans"? You might wan't to rethink that.


Regards...

Chad Irby wrote in
:

The EU is a loose political alliance, but it's certainly not
going to be "one voice" in any true sense.

And thank Buddah for that.


Regards...

Stephen Harding wrote in
:
Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

His cowboy reputation has less to do with his accent (I
wouldn't recognize a Texas accent anyway) than with the geeky,
unworldly style of his rethoric. To most Europeans the notion
that someone could give speeches like that and take himself
seriously is past belief. European leaders who have met George
W. actually praise him as an intelligent and charming
interlocutor, so one must assume that he does it on purpose...

GW clearly isn't a wordsmith, and delivery is very
unsophisticated for a politico. But he comes across to me as
"honest" in intent (contrary to his predecessor, who was very
smooth talking and had a great delivery).

In light of post 9/11 events, in particular, I would ask myself
who the real smooth talker is.


Regards...

In article ,
"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote:

"William Wright" wrote in message
news:G9xpb.70401$mZ5.436474@attbi_s54...

"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote in message
...

I agree that Chirac should have shut up, too. On the other hand
he had a point: Members of the EU should at least try to speak
with one voice when dealing with the US.

Why?

Well, because it is the point of a political alliance, which is
what the EU is, despite some claims to the contrary.

So who gets to choose which voice is presented?

in article , Emmanuel Gustin at
wrote on 2003/11/03 11:31:

His cowboy reputation has less to do with his accent (I wouldn't
recognize a Texas accent anyway) than with the...style of his
rethoric.

...one must assume that he does it on purpose....

And that's something else you don't know about Texas (and a lot of other
areas of the USA outside the cities). There's no perceived advantage in
being glib in the way that Europeans and US city folks seem to use as a
measure of one another.

Plus a whole 'nother style of "conspicuous consumption" that also doesn't
translate well.



Jack

Bjørnar Bolsøy wrote:

Alan Minyard wrote in
:


On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:02:07 GMT, "Bjørnar"
wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:



Universally most of Europe knows Bush as a "cowboy". Talk about
intellectual laziness.

Most europeans know Bush, and his administration, as responsible
for misleading the United Nations, falsifying and manipulating
intelligence information in order to gather support for the
most radical action any nation can undertake - acts of war
against another nation.

Though I guess wonder what "cowboy" would amount to these days, or
how many europeans you have spoken with on the matter.



Regards...

You mean the europeans who supported Saddam?????


Well, which europeans do you feel supports Saddam?



I can answer that for him. Any European who thinks that attacking Iraq
wasn't necessarily a good idea in the war against terrorism or who
thinks that attacking Iraq without a clear idea about the follow-up
wasn't very wise.

In his view, (which fits nicely with crude stereotypes about Americans)
displayed here regularly, if you're not with George W. Bush against
Saddam, you obviously must be a Saddam supporter.

He actually called me a Saddam supporter once.

Please Mr. Minyard, feel free to comment if I'm being inaccurate here.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

Again, I don't know what you mean by "cowboy", but I do know
Bush's image, be it right or not, suffers from his
inability to communcate with a clear sense of depth, wisdom
and well articulation compared to some other US presidents,
or officials.

You don't what I mean by cowboy? Come on, there were political cartoons daily
of Bush with a big 10 gallon hat on, riding horses and performing other such
ranch tasks. Additionally, his ranch in Texas was under constant attack in the
European press for being "isolated in the desert".

Just curious, have you ever lived or serviced in europe, or
anywhere else for that matter?

As a bomber guy, it'll be rare if I'm ever permantly stationed overseas (unless
they open a bomb wing on Andersen AFB, Guam...again), but I spent 5 months at
RAF Fairford during Operation ALLIED FORCE.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"