Seems like "Enola Gay" was caught in a revisionist storm... AGAIN!!

"Gerdeus" wrote in message
om...
There's no descendant of the P-59A. But every airliner that flies,
with its engines hung in pods beneath the wings, owes something to the
Me-262.

Not true. Just like every airliner that flies with the engines embedded
inside the wings or fuselage does not owe something to the Yak 15 or P-80.

Name one.

John

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...
Ed, THE Air Force Museum is truly a sight to behold.
I haven't been for a couple of years (maybe next week), but in the then
latest building you went in and looked off in the distance to the right
to see the Globe Master and B-18. Off in the distance to the left, the
F-117,
a 'Nam vet' B-52 up on a display stand and a Dagger. Above you hung
many a quaint and curious relics of the "X-" age and Observation types.
But from that vantage point in that brightly lit, open room you couldn't
see the XB-70, the Blackbird, X-15, B-57, B-58, MH-47 or the not
insignificant displays of 90 and Century series fighters.


Some of the birds you mention can be seen by signing up for a bus trip to
the annex on the base, (basically the presidential aircraft in one area
the
research aircraft in another). Ask about the signup at the information
desk. Get there early as many days the open slots are quickly filled.

Not unless they moved them OUT of the modern flight room, Tex.
They are there, or at least were three years ago, just along way off
from the door behind other planes.

"John Mullen" wrote in message ...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
om...
"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
om...
ost (Chris Mark) wrote in message
...
rom: brooksvmi

*entymology*!).

What is that? I've never heard of it

How about entomology?

Insects?

Yep. Never knew that made a guy an expert on stormwater runoff as well...

Brooks


John

There's no descendant of the P-59A. But every airliner that flies,
with its engines hung in pods beneath the wings, owes something to the
Me-262.

Not true. Just like every airliner that flies with the engines embedded
inside the wings or fuselage does not owe something to the Yak 15 or P-80.

There was a Boeing engineer with Operation Paperclip. He cabled back
to hold the development on the XB-47, which was then in design. He
came back with engineering studies that showed the advantages of swept
wings and pod-mounted engines. These were duly incorporated in the
B-47, which was the granddaddy of all Boeing airliners, and by
extension all Airbusses as well.

To be sure, the pods on the 262 were a work-around. It was only when
wings were swept that the Germans discovered that the pods served
brilliantly as air dams.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put CUB in subject line)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

how big the parking lot is, for that matter).

Parking lot won't matter. I reckon on cashing in air miles, flying to
Dulles, grabbing a cab.

Oh gee! If it's a zoo, how will I ever get a cab back to the airport?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put CUB in subject line)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I would have enjoyed a
discussion of Alperovitz's contentions,

Being unable to spell Alperovitz is hardly a reason to have one's
statement dismissed! (I generally paste it into the text I am writing


My thoughts on Alperovitz, Kai Bird, and the rest of that gang are at
www.warbirdforum.com/shadow.htm

(Kai Bird also signed the petition, along with Daniel Ellsberg, Oliver
Stone, and E L Doctorow.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put CUB in subject line)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"John Mullen" wrote in message ...
"Gerdeus" wrote in message
om...
There's no descendant of the P-59A. But every airliner that flies,
with its engines hung in pods beneath the wings, owes something to the
Me-262.

Not true. Just like every airliner that flies with the engines embedded
inside the wings or fuselage does not owe something to the Yak 15 or P-80.

Name one.

Boeing 727.


Gerd

From: Cub Driver

I would have enjoyed a
discussion of Alperovitz's contentions,

Being unable to spell Alperovitz is hardly a reason to have one's
statement dismissed!

But he made no statement about Alperovitz! He just made a wild assertion about
a general category. I made the mistake of assuming he had something specific
in mind that set him off. I was curious as to what it was. But by his rant I
saw that he was just bashing academics in general, and by his lights Gar
Alperovitz and Andrew Bacevich, for example, are on a par and both morons. And
I suspect he is equally unfamiliar with the writings of either. So I've turned
him off.

As to Alperovitz, I almost brought up his name in a follow-up to the post in
which I compared Bush43 to Truman and a poster replied that Truman's enemy
(communism) was a "real" threat, the poster's implication being that today's
war on terror and the Iraq phase of it is a fraud. Of course Alperovitz is
most famous as a historian of the origins of the Cold War and his general
contention that it was mostly the fault of the Truman administration,
especially Allan Dulles, and his long-held belief that Truman's decision to use
the atomic bombs on Japan was made with an eye to impressing the Soviets and
had nothing to do with any real need to use them to end the war. We've all
heard variations of this contention for years. The idea originated with
Alperovitz lo these many years ago.
In a new thread I will title "Alperovitz" I will post two exchanges Alperovitz
had with other, much better IMHO historians. Those not familiar with Alperovitz
may find them of interest. It has been said that Gar Alperovitz
single-handledlyprolonged the Cold War by a quarter of a century, due to the
influence of his ideas worldwide and the resultant weakening of the will of the
West to resist communism and attempt to accomodate it. Don't know about that,
but he is an important figure in the history of the Cold War, and an example of
the, sometimes pernicious, influence of academics the general public is largely
unaware of on world events.



Chris Mark

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...
Not unless they moved them OUT of the modern flight room, Tex.
They are there, or at least were three years ago, just along way off
from the door behind other planes.

Spent four days there in July. Because of the new building any arrangement
you may have seen before no longer exists. Terry Atkin, senior curator,
told me all of the aircraft were repositioned except the B-52 but I suspect
he exaggerated.

I was there as part of the opening ceremonies of "Inventing Flight" and
since our portion was curtailed we went to the Museum on Saturday, attended
a reception there that night then went there on Monday. Later in the month
I went back to Dayton and spent two days at the facility. The XB-70 is in
the annex along with many of the research aircraft. Some research aircraft
(Tacit Blue, X-3, X-4, X-17...) are in the Modern Flight Hangar.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/ans.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf.htm

Have not listed the other hangars but the can be reached through the main
website at:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/

Tex

Well, heck then, it IS time I went back over there.
Nothing important on the schedule this week, I may go.

"Tex Houston" wrote in message
...

"John Keeney" wrote in message
...
Not unless they moved them OUT of the modern flight room, Tex.
They are there, or at least were three years ago, just along way off
from the door behind other planes.

Spent four days there in July. Because of the new building any
arrangement
you may have seen before no longer exists. Terry Atkin, senior curator,
told me all of the aircraft were repositioned except the B-52 but I
suspect
he exaggerated.

I was there as part of the opening ceremonies of "Inventing Flight" and
since our portion was curtailed we went to the Museum on Saturday,
attended
a reception there that night then went there on Monday. Later in the
month
I went back to Dayton and spent two days at the facility. The XB-70 is in
the annex along with many of the research aircraft. Some research
aircraft
(Tacit Blue, X-3, X-4, X-17...) are in the Modern Flight Hangar.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/ans.htm

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf.htm

Have not listed the other hangars but the can be reached through the main
website at:

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/

Tex