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#61
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Parachute 20 year limit
In these increasingly litigious days, I should have thought people who
run 2-seater flights without parachutes would be wise to learn from this 1999 event: “ . . . they were approximately 2,500 feet agl . . . the glider was struck by lightning and large sections of its airframe disintegrated. . . . . The student had already decided to abandon the glider and, after he had departed, the instructor followed but was surprised when he realised that he had not had to jettison his cockpit canopy. It was estimated that both parachutes had successfully inflated by 1,800 feet agl.” Happy and safe soaring to you all. Chris N. |
#62
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Parachute 20 year limit
On Dec 7, 8:15*am, Gregg Ballou wrote:
Impact with an open parachute? I don't know for sure but my recollection was that the chute had opened. No doubt there are others on this group that were at the contest. I checked NTSB reports and don't find this accident listed. There are only 5 reports for that month which is unusually low so I suspect the on line records are not complete. Andy |
#63
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Parachute 20 year limit
.. No doubt there are others on this group that were at the contest. I was there, flying my Duster. There was only one Q in the sky and it was located at the IP.The two pilots climbed up into the Q and then crossed wings in the mist. Several pilots watched as the ASW-20 pilot struggled to get out by trying to open the canopy the same way he always opened it..........unlatch the side locks and shove it up. He never did pull the jettison knob. Finally got out, pulled the D ring, chute deployed but he hit the ground before it could blossom. Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a message here for all of us. JJ |
#64
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Parachute 20 year limit
I am often asked "how high do you have to be for the parachute to open if
you have to bail out" I guess you could go on and on about just how much time it takes to exit the glider, get into a proper position, deploy the parachute and make a safe, soft landing...but my simple answer is, "if I know I am going to die in a glider slamming into the ground, and there is a .000000001% chance I might get out and survive with a parachute......I will be trying until the last ounce of earth covers my shoe laces!" Honestly, I don't think when the occasion appears anyone will be doing the math...and in a state of high adrenalin time passes by very slowly...slow enough I don't think I want to have this time to ponder the consequences... tim Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com "Bruce Hoult" wrote in message ... On Dec 8, 4:26 am, TonyV wrote: Chutes are worn as a matter of course in single seaters. Pretty much the same at my (US) club. But, you have to ask "How weird is that?". Tony V. LS6-b "6N" I would say that with 3000 - 4000 ft cloudbases near the airfield and 2000 - 3000 ft terrain, our trial flights and training flights are probably seldom high enough above the terrain for a parachute to be any use to someone not intimately familiar with its use. |
#65
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Parachute 20 year limit
That's a great point, JJ.
The manual for my ASW-19 says "First push forward white canopy lock- knobs, then pull red canopy release knob and push canopy upward." Except for pulling the red knob, this is exactly how I always get out of the cockpit! It's really easy to see how under stress I might do the exact same thing this poor guy did. It certainly makes a great deal of sense to practice exactly how you would get out in the air, until it's second nature. I've read about people who released their parachute straps before bailing out, simply because they always get out of the plane that way... -John JJ Sinclair wrote: Several pilots watched as the ASW-20 pilot struggled to get out by trying to open the canopy the same way he always opened it..........unlatch the side locks and shove it up. He never did pull the jettison knob. [...Snip... Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a message here for all of us. JJ |
#66
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Parachute 20 year limit
JJ Sinclair wrote:
Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a message here for all of us. On just about every flight, and especially during a contest or XC with friends, I make it a point to go through my "midair bailout" procedure, while inflight: Tell myself "MIDAIR!", then touch (carefully) the canopy jettison handles (both of them in my LS6) while saying "pull handles push canopy away", then touch seatbelt buckle "undo straps", then " get out of glider, pull ripcord". Trying to get the old muscle memory up to speed.... Kirk 66 |
#67
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Parachute 20 year limit
snip My position is there is no evidence the untrained glider pilot
will be better off, and some chance the pilot might actually be worse off. / snip Eric, There is no such thing as an untrained glider pilot (one with a license, of course) -- a ram-air parachute *is* a glider. Emergency ram-air chutes are extremely docile and easy to use. Pull the left handle to go left. Pull the right to go right. Pull both gently when approaching the ground if you want to flare it (which is not mandatory for a safe touchdown). I fly mostly in the southwest, where the landscape can be most unfriendly to someone under a round parachute instead of a square. (The first is a passenger, the latter a pilot.) I don't want to survive a mid-air or glider breakup only to land in trees, canyons, power lines or water. Definitely consider a square emergency chute if you are ever in the market for a new one. And if you live near a skydiving center, go make a tandem jump and see just how easy it is. ~ted/2NO |
#68
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Parachute 20 year limit
Tuno wrote:
snip My position is there is no evidence the untrained glider pilot will be better off, and some chance the pilot might actually be worse off. / snip Eric, There is no such thing as an untrained glider pilot (one with a license, of course) -- a ram-air parachute *is* a glider. Emergency ram-air chutes are extremely docile and easy to use. That was not what I read on the websites of companies selling them, or what I was told by a couple manufacturers of parachutes. They seemed very sincere. Pull the left handle to go left. Pull the right to go right. Pull both gently when approaching the ground if you want to flare it (which is not mandatory for a safe touchdown). Except for the flare part, isn't that how a round emergency works? How fast is the ram-air emergency parachute? I'm told my Softie has about 5 mph forward speed and about 10 seconds to do a 360 degree turn, which seems agile enough. I fly mostly in the southwest, where the landscape can be most unfriendly to someone under a round parachute instead of a square. (The first is a passenger, the latter a pilot.) I don't want to survive a mid-air or glider breakup only to land in trees, canyons, power lines or water. There are hazards everywhere, yet it seems if the pilot gets out (in time), he survives, usually without any injury. Definitely consider a square emergency chute if you are ever in the market for a new one. And if you live near a skydiving center, go make a tandem jump and see just how easy it is. Too late! Bought a new Softie in March. I decided the potential advantage of the ram-air was miniscule, and chance of mis-handling it one way or the other was higher than miniscule. As far a tandem jump, I decided the risk of that outweighed the fun and knowledge I'd get out it. So far, 33 years, 6000 hours soaring, no jumps required. With luck and good health, I'll be extremely annoyed in 20 years because no one will repack my chute, and I have to buy a new one. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
#69
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Parachute 20 year limit
On Dec 8, 11:48 am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
JJ Sinclair wrote: Old habits take over when under extreme stress.........there's a message here for all of us. On just about every flight, and especially during a contest or XC with friends, I make it a point to go through my "midair bailout" procedure, while inflight: Tell myself "MIDAIR!", then touch (carefully) the canopy jettison handles (both of them in my LS6) while saying "pull handles push canopy away", then touch seatbelt buckle "undo straps", then " get out of glider, pull ripcord". Trying to get the old muscle memory up to speed.... Kirk 66 Agree completely. I posted a message up-thread my bailout and what you are talking about is just what saved my bacon. I do the drill after every landing, before I get out of the cockpit. Mike |
#70
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Parachute 20 year limit
At 15:52 08 December 2008, jcarlyle wrote: (snip)
I've read about people who released their parachute straps before bailing out, simply because they always get out of the plane that way... -John I think you will find that this is an aeronautical myth. I have heard this story as many others will have and it is often used as a reason not to get out of your glider on the ground without the parachute. I have never seen a proper account of any accident where it actually happened. The square canopy v round canopy has been discussed on here before. As far as I am aware, certainly in the UK, all emergency chutes are round canopy for the very good reason that they open more reliable, faster opening and pack into a smaller container. A sport chute is a completely different design and if sport parachutists carry a reserve it is round canopy. |
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